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The 'buy now, pay later' bubble is about to burst

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Re: The 'buy now, pay later' bubble is about to burst

#251

Post by c-cube »

throwaheyy wrote: post #244
nibbleshifter wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its fucking amazing how backwards the US financial ecosystem is, and I don't really understand why.

This applies to more than just banking. They were the first to innovate. Thus they get stuck with first generation technology while other countries leapfrog ahead. Example: back in 2009 I got an American Express card with contactless technology. It was one of the transparent cards with the blue square in the middle so you could see it right inside the card. Problem was, no store had a terminal it could be used with.…

Yeah, Americans often stick to the first version of something that worked well enough. Examples: election system (indirect), constitution, 110V sockets, iPhones, imperial system of units... It's hard to break established practice.

Re: The 'buy now, pay later' bubble is about to burst

#252

Post by auxfil »

tarotuser wrote: post #238
balozi wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a philosophical tangent, if you BNDP (buy now, don't pay), did you actually buy it? If you did indeed buy it, who did you buy it from - the original vendor or the party you didn't pay? We may need new language for the times we are living in.

Id daresay that what you asked isn't philosophical, but legal. And from what I gather, yes, it is a sale. And if you don't pay, they ding your credit. Hard. And low/no credit people can't even use these services. But to the larger point, there's a lot of things that claim to be a sale, but aren't really. I'm especially thinking of DRM music, movies, software, and generally copyrighted goods like that. Those folks are…

Sorry to burst your bubble, but legal philosophy is real, and has a direct impact on what you are here calling "legal".

Re: The 'buy now, pay later' bubble is about to burst

#253

Post by Sakos »

pandaman wrote: post #172
happyopossum wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you sell the camera and pay off the bill. Sheesh - it's a camera, not a life support machine...

I think you might be overestimating the liquidity of the used camera market a little bit.

Does it matter? Even if he only gets half the price back, that leaves 1500 left of the debt he has to pay out of pocket. If he's paying monthly for the camera, he suddenly has a $4000 bill on top of whatever of the $5000 debt remains unpaid. I think I'd rather be in the former situation.

Re: The 'buy now, pay later' bubble is about to burst

#254

Post by xur17 »

wh0knows wrote: post #209
nkrisc wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the credit card company sits there hoping you give in to temptation and actually use the line of credit it represents, at which point they charge you usurious rates and distribute part of their loot to all the other poor schmucks they're conning. It is kind of grim when I stop to think about how the probably several thousand dollars in cash-back bonuses I've received over the years of never paying a single cent…

Most of the money made by credit card companies is from the transaction fees paid by the merchant. Credit card companies would still be immensely profitable without receiving a cent of interest. [Edit] This was my understanding but some fact checking on Google proved the majority of income is from interest payments.

> This was my understanding but some fact checking on Google proved the majority of income is from interest payments.

Yeah, the data I have seen says that 2/3 of the income comes from interest payments, 1/3 from tx fees.

Re: The 'buy now, pay later' bubble is about to burst

#255

Post by Sakos »

asoneth wrote: post #223
grishka wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you can barely afford your own needs and have no savings, but you decide to have a child?.. No offense, I'm just curious about your thinking and priorities.

The person you are replying to had a job (likely in tech), a house, a car, and a chance at promotion when the child was conceived. That seems like a better position than most. If your implied threshold for conceiving a child is that you must have acquired all of these things plus enough savings to weather unexpected medical events and extended job loss then that seems like a threshold that the majority of couples wil…

This is the biggest reason why people aren't having kids in the US and much of the West. Nobody actually can afford it anymore.

Re: The 'buy now, pay later' bubble is about to burst

#256

Post by maxerickson »

throwaheyy wrote: post #244
nibbleshifter wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its fucking amazing how backwards the US financial ecosystem is, and I don't really understand why.

This applies to more than just banking. They were the first to innovate. Thus they get stuck with first generation technology while other countries leapfrog ahead. Example: back in 2009 I got an American Express card with contactless technology. It was one of the transparent cards with the blue square in the middle so you could see it right inside the card. Problem was, no store had a terminal it could be used with.…

It's always kind of wild to watch people write a check and then use the much more convenient and secure contactless.

(Usually the store electronically submits the check at the time of sale...)

Re: The 'buy now, pay later' bubble is about to burst

#257

Post by [deleted] »

nindalf wrote: post #57

This entire thread is focussed not on BNPL, but whether the entire concept of consumer debt makes sense. Some folks say consumers should never take on debt for purchases, when they can save up instead. Others point out that it’s unavoidable in some cases. You may need a car to get to your job, meaning the asset you purchased creates value that helps you pay for it. And yet others point out that you shouldn’t be finan…

[deleted]

Re: The 'buy now, pay later' bubble is about to burst

#258

Post by Amezarak »

Existenceblinks wrote: post #202
nibbleshifter wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes the Americans feel bad. I don't think Americans understand that their credit card rewards/etc simply don't exist in Europe. There is literally no reason for me to ever use a credit card, it just costs me money.

Yeah there's also non-credit card that has the same fraud protection, contactless, separated balance, plus mobile app that's very fancy that can even pay street food shop.

What card has the same fraud protection?

In the US, debit cards do have "fraud protection", in that if someone steals my card or number somehow and spends $500, after an investigation it will be restored to me.

With a credit card, I am never out the money. I see a charge, report it, and none of my money is ever missing. I will never have to pay the $500, and it will never come out of any account that belongs to me.

Re: The 'buy now, pay later' bubble is about to burst

#259

Post by pandaman »

Sakos wrote: post #253
pandaman wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might be overestimating the liquidity of the used camera market a little bit.

Does it matter? Even if he only gets half the price back, that leaves 1500 left of the debt he has to pay out of pocket. If he's paying monthly for the camera, he suddenly has a $4000 bill on top of whatever of the $5000 debt remains unpaid. I think I'd rather be in the former situation.

Even if not having any debt is extremely important to you then you are still out of 2500 on your camera transaction, which is pure loss here. However some people consider not just an amount of debt but its other qualities too and for them having debt of $5000 with 0% APR might be preferable to having $1500 debt with, say, 20%+ APR. At the end you need to count a monetary balance and compare a ($2500) loss on camera together with the interest paid on your $1500 loan against paying $5000 for the camera.

If math is hard consider your end state:

1. Without the camera, without $5000 + interest on the $1500 you borrowed.

2. With a $5000 camera, without $5000 you paid for the camera.

The state of the $4000 bill is the same in both cases, which state you prefer?

Re: The 'buy now, pay later' bubble is about to burst

#260

Post by barbazoo »

wyuenho wrote: post #247
barbazoo wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a business, I get it. Most people that are being targeted here though wouldn't fall into that category. > The worst it can happen is you have to pay exactly the labeled price some 3 months later. What if you parked the money and it lost value as I described? I think that's a worse case. So this only works if you hold on to the money in a place where it's guaranteed to increase in value (but interest rates a…

If you parked the money and it lost value, it doesn't matter, because that's only relative to everything other than the stand mixer you bought. The price of the stand mixer is fixed at the time of purchase, it doesn't go up as time goes by.

I don't get it. If you bought the mixer and paid for it a year later but a year later when you have to fork over the money and it's suddenly not 800 bucks anymore but, say 750, you need another 50 bucks. So you spent 850 instead of 800, no?
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