Not sure, that’s just the way the company wrote up the bid. The Powerwall portion was around $16k I think.
I know someone who did 5000W system for around 15,000 in 2018. Battert/Powerwalls let the solar work when the power goes out. (the dc to ac converters use the 60hz out of the grid to sync. There is no shutoff to the grid so for safety reasons her system shuts down when the power is out).
Oh sure, and I wanted a battery of some kind to keep things running in an outage. I just mean I don’t know why they bid a Powerwall specifically instead of some other battery system.
I paid ~15k to install solar in 2019. After tax rebates it was ~11k. I’m generating ~12MWh per year. My break even period is less than 5 years. I’m based out of California, and generate excess energy. My electric bill is now just ~$100/year.
Have you experienced any grid power outages where your solar panels saved your day?
No as I haven’t lost power since installation. However during a power outage I can configure the SMA inverter to detach from my breaker box and operate a single 15Amp outlet
I worked in the solar industry for years and this is a very good summary of the residential install process from the customer side. I’ll also second one of the main points of the author: do NOT get a solar lease. Either finance it through a solar loan or pay cash. A good solar company will not push you into a lease. If they try, talk to someone else.
Why are the leases so problematic? If you don't have the funds nor credit score to finance it, why not just rent out the roof space so to speak? Any return you get from it is better than nothing.
I paid ~15k to install solar in 2019. After tax rebates it was ~11k. I’m generating ~12MWh per year. My break even period is less than 5 years. I’m based out of California, and generate excess energy. My electric bill is now just ~$100/year.
Do you have a battery or are the excess directly dumped to grid?
Excess sent to the grid using the NEM 2.0 TOU-C rate plan.
Because net metering is forcing the utility to purchase power at the retail rate. It doesn't make any sense. It isn't a profit margin issue. There is a massive infrastructure and expense to deliver wholesale power to an individual customer and it has to be recouped. Either you sell back your power at some percent of wholesale or solar installs need to get a corresponding increased delivery fee.
This is all rather bizarre. If PG&E charges 30 cents/kWh for a marginal kWh delivered, then either something is quite wrong with the pricing model or it really does cost some respectable fraction of 30 cents/kWh to get a marginal kWh through their system into their distribution network where the customer is. If it's the latter, then reduction of 1 kWh delivered should save them the same amount of money. I think the r…
> If it's the latter, then reduction of 1 kWh delivered should save them the same amount of money.
The "net metering" policy being changed isn't regarding "saving the grid the money by reducing the amount delivered to a customer." If you don't use the power from them, you don't pay for it. But this is about the utility paying the customer the retail rate for excess generation - aka paying retail rate for something that would offset a cost they'd otherwise pay wholesale rate to generate. This is about the current (not the new) system: https://news.energysage.com/net-metering-2-0-in-california-e...
It's not clear to me at all that it makes sense to compel the utility to purchase your excess power at the retail rate, if you're generating more than you can use. It also seems to gives weird incentives to size and spend on your home setup.
Assuming you are grid-tied, the reduction of electric bills is predicated on net metering, where the utility company gives you (ideally) 1-for-1 credit for the electricity you produce. In California, this was called NEM 1.0 and NEM 2.0. Every few years the California utilities lobby the Public Utilities Commission (PUC) to chip away at the NEM program. This year the PUC voted unanimously to cut net energy metering an…
Net metering just doesn't make sense though. Everyone who wants to rely on the grid for power availability ought to pay for grid upkeep costs. Net metering would make sense if it came on top of a baseline "connectivity fee" that covered grid maintenance, but that's not the current policy, would likely be politically infeasible, and would hurt rooftop solar customers financially anyway. Subsidizing solar is a perfectl…
That's how my distributed generation contract with our Rural Electric Cooperative works. We pay $50/month for the connection, but the actual use/generation is 1 for 1 net metering. We are limited in how much generation we can connect to 105% of our average annual consumption, so over the course of year, on average, we zero out energy costs. If we want to connect more distributed generation than that, the tariff shifts to we get wholesale for what we sell, pay retail for what we use.
> The unsubsidized all-in price for buying and installing the panels was $25,525.43... after counting this $6,636.61 tax credit, the subsidized price was $18,888.82 Looks like a 7 year return on investment after subsidies, 10 years without.
I'm not affiliated, but Solar Wholesale is a DIY that can be 1/4 the cost of hiring a contractor: https://www.solarwholesale.com Even the wiring is DIY. Most people think this requires a lot of skill, but you are just adding an input to your panel board on your house.
how much is your bill and what's the breakdown of electricity costs (how many kwhrs) vs mandatory grid fees? (regulatory and connection fees)
Hottest month for me was aug, I paid around 161 ~$135 1190kWh (charged at ~$0.114 / kWh) ~$10.50 tax ~15.50 other fees/riders which can not be recouped with panels OP is somehow paying ~25c/kWh, though I have to believe they are counting the connections fees etc in their estimate, based on natl averages they would be an outlier for most states. https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/
Yes, that price is insane!
I don't have A/C, do have net metering and do have solar panels, so I intentionally picked the plan with the highest costs during the day in the summers and I pay 24c/kWh only in peak hours during the summer.
Author may be a high energy user and on a tiered monthly-usage plan rather than a TOU plan; if that is the case than the solar panels may be saving energy billed at the highest marginal rate which might be 25c/kWh. My previous house had in-ceiling electrical resistive heating only and I accidentally got a 4-figure electric bill the first January I lived there because one thermostat was broken. IIRC everything after the first NkWh (where N was a crazy high number) was billed at around 25c.
I paid ~15k to install solar in 2019. After tax rebates it was ~11k. I’m generating ~12MWh per year. My break even period is less than 5 years. I’m based out of California, and generate excess energy. My electric bill is now just ~$100/year.
if you generate excess energy, can you store it for a later time when you need more energy (presumably summer time)?
Why would I? I’m on NEM 2.0. The grid is my “battery”. Every KWh I generate that isn’t used is sent back to the grid. In exchange I get an IOU for the equivalent $/KWh price during that time. This is the retail $/KWh which includes transmission costs.
It's surprising that it's possible to produce electricity at home for a lower cost than the wholesale price. I can't think of any other commodity for which this is possible. You couldn't make your own steel, bread or printer paper at home and beat manufacturing at scale. Why is electricity different?
It isn’t - other customers are paying for their ability to have electricity when (and how much) they want it, via the net metering subsidy. If you divide their cost by the lifetime expected generation, you get 9-13 cents per kWh depending on panel subsidy. This sounds great in California but isn’t far off from retail prices in some states. And the actual grid “wholesale” price is usually far less than that except at peak times or exceptional situations. You pay at retail to still have power in those situations. With net metering everyone else pays you that price for something you are not providing.