251–260 of 303 posts
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Just tested in GNU nano, version 3.2, the default on Debian Buster, with default settings. Ctrl-K deletes entire line no matter where in the line you use it.
I believe ctrl+k cuts the line. ctrl+u pastes the line, yea?
Does anyone have a good tutorial for vim/neovim that they recommended for learning how to use them effectively? I’ve been using vim for over a year for quick edits, but I don’t think I get the most out of it.
vimtutor. It comes with the full vim install, at least in ubuntu. It will give you the basics, then afterward you can run :h to see what the less used commands do.
> modal editing doesn’t really fit my mental model of how an editor should work The whole point of vim is that you change your mental model to become faster at editing text. People don't come into programming with a blank slate about editors, they were introduced to wysiwyg editors from an early age because of Microsoft Word, web based text input, and now phones (with emojis too). A mental model had been impressed al…
The whole point of vi and vim was to edit text visually, instead of as lines.
Bill Joy reflecting on vi in 1984:[1]
"REVIEW: What would you do differently?
JOY: I wish we hadn't used all the keys on the keyboard. I think one of the interesting things is that vi is really a mode-based editor. I think as mode-based editors go, it (is) pretty good. One of the good things about EMACS, though, is its programmability and the modelessness. Those are two ideas which never occurred to me. ... The fundamental problem with vi is that it doesn't have a mouse and therefore you've got all these commands. In some sense, its backwards from the kind of thing you'd get from a mouse-oriented thing. I think multiple levels of undo would be wonderful, too. But fundamentally, vi is still ed inside. You can't really fool it.
Its like one of those pinatas - things that have candy inside but has layer after layer of paper mache on top. It doesn't really have a unified concept. I think if I were going to go back - I wouldn't go back, but start over again.
I think the wonderful thing about vi is that it has such a good market share because we gave it away. Everybody has it now. So it actually had a chance to become part of what is perceived as basic UNIX. EMACS is a nice editor too, but because it costs hundreds of dollars, there will always be people who won't buy it."
...
"REVIEW: What is it that (WYSIWYG document processor) Interleaf offers you that EMACS doesn't?
JOY: I can just look at my screen, and when I print it off, it's the same as it looks on the screen. It is formatted, and I'm tired of using vi. I get really bored. There have been many nights when I've fallen asleep at the keyboard trying to make a release. At least now I can fall asleep with a mouse in my hand. I use the Xerox optica mouse instead of the other one because it is color coordinated with my office. Did you notice? I prefer the white mouse to the black mouse. You've got to have some fun, right?
This business of using the same editor for 10 years - it's like living in the same place for 10 years. None of us does it. Everyone moves once a year, right?"
1: https://web.archive.org/web/20120210184000/http://web.cecs.p...
There was a time (2006?) when I was getting into linux. I was a big microsofty, due to comfort mostly, and I was shamed into trying Linux. Like most people I went Ubuntu first, but wifi drivers at the time were lacking, and nvidia of yore was certainly not better than nvidia of now. Suffice it to say: I spent a lot of time in the terminal trying to fix things. Nano was my tool of choice because: honestly the initial…
Something that annoys me is that the only good thing about vim is the idea of composable modal actions. Don't get me wrong, that feature alone is powerful enough to choose vim as your editor of choice, but... There is no reason whatsoever why you couldn't have an editor with 2022's standards of UX and newbie friendliness that makes use of the same idea; it just hasn't happened. Even when modern editors adapt vim func…
For people picking up linux for the first time that initial impression is crucial. Dropping people like that into an editor that requires you to somehow know ":q!" is the answer is utterly insane. Same with beginner tutorials using vi. It's straight up bad for linux adoption even if technically superior. Anyone that is a vi fan likely has the skillset to install it themselves - the reverse is not always true.
> It's straight up bad for linux adoption even if technically superior. I think the idea that Vim is "technically superior" should be challenged as well. I've watched, and participated in, dozens of discussions on text editors, and have never been shown a concrete piece of scientific evidence demonstrating Vim's claimed superiority according to any real-world metric. All we have are artificial comparisons where it ta…
I can’t really compare to eg. Emacs bindings, as I have no experience with those, but most text editors have nothing, and if you have to reach for a mouse or arrow keys instead Vim is imo going to be much better once you’ve learnt it.
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What does it mean for an IDE to support neovim?
it probably means to run actual instance of neovim and use it as a backend for current editor's content.
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I'm an enthousiastic vim user. I think everyone who spends a lot if time editing text and who doesn't use vim (or similar) is probably missing out (including the author of this article). I think vim is really good. But I 100% agree that vim is a stupid default. In almost every context it's going to confuse more people than it makes happy.
> [...] everyone [...] who doesn't use vim (or similar) is probably missing out (including the author of this article) Did you read the article? The author used both emacs and vim. Quote: "I don’t like either of them, for differing reasons: modal editing doesn’t really fit my mental model of how an editor should work, [...]" I don't get how people who like modal editing can't accept that other people don't. From my e…
Hi. I like modal editing and kind of can't accept that other people don't.
I think they just haven't really tried, you know? In my view, it isn't a subjective matter of preference, rather I consider modal editing to be objectively superior: we have the whole keyboard at our disposal to enter commands and manipulate the text, not just tricky key combinations.
Sometimes the objection to modal editing is that you need to keep an eye on which mode you're in, but in my experience. If you're doing it right, you're always in normal mode, unless inserting text. When you finish inserting text, you immediately switch to normal mode.
There, I probably haven't convinced you nor anyone else, but I'm sure all the vim users are nodding along ;)
There was a time (2006?) when I was getting into linux. I was a big microsofty, due to comfort mostly, and I was shamed into trying Linux. Like most people I went Ubuntu first, but wifi drivers at the time were lacking, and nvidia of yore was certainly not better than nvidia of now. Suffice it to say: I spent a lot of time in the terminal trying to fix things. Nano was my tool of choice because: honestly the initial…
[...]
> I feel like nano shipping as the default editor is a step-back
Make up your mind about nano being the easy way in, or just admit that you like the vim gatekeeping?
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Conversely, as multi-decade Unix user, when I type in "vi" I want to get Vi, I do not want Vim starting. If I wanted Vim I would have typed in "vim".
Why?