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A Linux Evening

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Re: A Linux Evening

#251

Post by anonymousDan »

deltarholamda wrote: post #80
revolvingocelot wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually my go-to for "Linux problems" is "tear down the VM and start a new one", but a few days ago my Manjaro rig at home lost power, and bluetooth wouldn't work upon restart. I wracked my brain, pored through forum threads, man pages, and LFS, but nothing really helped. It looked like several different problems at once, but none of the individual fixes worked, or only worked for minutes at a time. I stepped away fr…

>I'm not sure what I learned. "Have you tried turning it off and on again?"

I always refer to this as Computer Science 101.

Re: A Linux Evening

#252

Post by swayvil »

freeplay wrote: post #180
ronjouch wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but chiming in nevertheless, as I do also "set up Linux for computer-illiterate old ladies" . They all roll Debian stable with unattended_upgrades and it's an absolute joy of stability. Not that I would use Debian stable for my personal machines: I want the latest shiniest and I want to be close to upstream to report bugs when they're fresh and easy to fix by the maintainer (yes, "I use arch btw" indeed), but…

Nice. What is your go to desktop environment for them?

Mate

Re: A Linux Evening

#253

Post by mrb »

l1k wrote: post #15

Thunderbolt devices appear in the OS as a PCIe switch, so you need two additional bus numbers (one for the Switch Upstream Port and one for the Switch Downstream Port). If the device is hotplugged to a port which has run out of bus numbers, you'll get this error message. Mika Westerberg is constantly fine-tuning the allocation of PCI resources in the Linux kernel to avoid such scenarios. Some recent patches: https://…

The key takeaway, especially for the author who wants things to "just work", is that he should have used a USB external disk, instead of a Thunderbolt external disk. OSes tend to have more issues with Thunderbolt disks (such as this issue you explained in details) than with USB disks, because the latter is more common, so more corner case bugs have been eliminated.

Re: A Linux Evening

#254

Post by blueflow »

jodrellblank wrote: post #248
arghwhat wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're doing the same thing, dragging the original conversation off into berating the commentor for not fixing it themselves because you owe them nothing and they shouldn't be so entitled. Ah, this argument again. Yeah, the maintainers owe you nothing, as they have already worked their asses off to give you something for free. You have the right to make polite bug reports and discuss fixes, but no one is entitled t…

I think you are mixing two arguments. One is a good, valid, argument which is about how volunteer maintainers don't owe anyone anything, and absolutely don't deserve to be harassed, insulted, coerced, guilt tripped, etc. And the other is is about internet Linux commenters (away from bug trackers and issue lists) replying in ways that close down and end conversation of anything which isn't toeing the 'party line' of h…

Your ideas and intentions might be good and noble, but in the end of the day its the contributors and maintainers who burn out. And from my impression, most people in OSS are already fed up with supporting users. And I'm too. Telling users off like "fix it or shut up, stop talking about it" is the necessary step to protect yourself.

Re: A Linux Evening

#255

Post by swayvil »

seanw444 wrote: post #121
swayvil wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This contradicts my experience. I use Linux every day and I never touch the engine. I also set up Linux for computer-illiterate old ladies. They love it.

Some people just don't like the Linux (or Unix) way of doing things. I personally can't understand the predisposition against it, but hey, whatever works for them I guess.

For your average user it's exactly the same desktop as windows and mac : there's menus and icons, you click on stuff, there's a browser... What's this "way" that they don't like?

They don't like free, stable and fast? They don't like how it isn't going after your wallet every 5 minutes?

It's gotta be propaganda at work. It's the only explanation.

Re: A Linux Evening

#256

Post by swayvil »

freeplay wrote: post #147
swayvil wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This contradicts my experience. I use Linux every day and I never touch the engine. I also set up Linux for computer-illiterate old ladies. They love it.

Out of curiosity, what distro do you use and what is your distro of choice for the old ladies?

Debian and Debian.

Re: A Linux Evening

#257

Post by nazgulnarsil »

I recently had a Linux evening trying to enable a swap file for pop os that was inexplicably lacking one by default leading to hard locks when I ran out of ram. I eventually fucked the install badly enough that I needed to wipe the boot drive and start fresh. Really disappointing because until then everything was Just Working.

Re: A Linux Evening

#258

Post by sylware »

l1k wrote: post #207
nneonneo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like the pause/unpause might be the way to fix this properly, since trying to be heuristically smarter sounds like a recipe for never-ending corner case bugs like the OP’s issue. The patch for pausing and unpausing seems quite reasonable, except that it does require driver support (unsurprising - you’re literally reallocating the resources used by the driver!). I suppose if you had at least a few movable de…

The PCI resource allocation code is fairly intricate and everyone is scared that changing it may cause regressions. Sergei's patch set is quite intrusive and it would be necessary to somehow break it up into smaller pieces that are slowly fed into mainline over several release cycles, always watching out for regression reports. So, the problem is known, but the engineers working on PCI code in the kernel are given hi…

In the dynamic use cases, the PCIe specs is kind of shabby on the addressing space: it is theorically fixed by FPB.

I guess this is sorry for those niche hardware use cases.

Isn't FPB into PCIe 4.0? (I am not a SIG member, cannot read the specs).

Re: A Linux Evening

#259

Post by iraqmtpizza »

swayvil wrote: post #255
seanw444 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people just don't like the Linux (or Unix) way of doing things. I personally can't understand the predisposition against it, but hey, whatever works for them I guess.

For your average user it's exactly the same desktop as windows and mac : there's menus and icons, you click on stuff, there's a browser... What's this "way" that they don't like? They don't like free, stable and fast? They don't like how it isn't going after your wallet every 5 minutes? It's gotta be propaganda at work. It's the only explanation.

Ubuntu desktop is anything but stable. Nuke-and-pave is the only sane solution to the OS corruption issues. The GUI is more stripped down than a holocaust victim. They still haven't figured out drag and drop. And on top of that, everyone swears such-and-such distribution is actually the good one, but it never is. The desktop is in permanent demo mode. A back-burner school project that turned into a part-time hobby.

Maybe you just use it for web browsing. But for everyone else, there's Windows. Which is still crap but at least you can set an environment variable without doing a research project into the differences between .bash_profile, .bashrc, .profile, and /etc/environment. None of which have a GUI. And the best part is that none of them can ever be renamed because muh scripts would break and the entire OS would come crashing down.

Re: A Linux Evening

#260

Post by swayvil »

iraqmtpizza wrote: post #259
swayvil wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For your average user it's exactly the same desktop as windows and mac : there's menus and icons, you click on stuff, there's a browser... What's this "way" that they don't like? They don't like free, stable and fast? They don't like how it isn't going after your wallet every 5 minutes? It's gotta be propaganda at work. It's the only explanation.

Ubuntu desktop is anything but stable. Nuke-and-pave is the only sane solution to the OS corruption issues. The GUI is more stripped down than a holocaust victim. They still haven't figured out drag and drop. And on top of that, everyone swears such-and-such distribution is actually the good one, but it never is. The desktop is in permanent demo mode. A back-burner school project that turned into a part-time hobby. M…

Ok, ya, last time I used Ubuntu I didn't like it either. I like Debian (Ubuntu is derived from it apparently), with MATE desktop.
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