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The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

bbc.com

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Re: The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

#251
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rejoice, you have a spark of humanity left in you—even in a corporate environment. Which is usually a requirement to be hired in my team. I vastly prefer direct, humorous, and respectful coworkers like you over perfectly controlled machines.

Are you hiring frontend people?

I'm sorry, I work as Creative Manager—so usually that means designers (for either content or UX) or various other roles like motion artists. But no new positions at this time—still recovering from some cuts.

Re: The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that he's intelligent make him what we refer to in the ADHD world as Twice Exceptional (me included!). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa5v1a2H-xs

Despite seeing myself almost precisely described in that video and the original article, and despite having been diagnosed with ADHD as a college student... It's hard for me to believe that there exists persons that won't / don't identify with that description, and thus the cause of my executive dysfunction isn't ADHD, but just a failure to cultivate habits of discipline.

They exist, and there’s usually a mourning period when you have to truly grapple with understanding things really are harder for us.

“a failure to cultivate habits of discipline” is an _outcome of ADHD_. Executive dysfunction is preventing the cultivation of habits, not to say it’s impossible but they’re usually connected.

A useful trick here is to accomodate the lacking parts of the ADHD brain, with external consequences and external timekeeping.

External accountability and consequences such as a gym buddy (who you don’t want to let down), or needing to get your work done to get paid (so you can eat).

And external timekeeping is critical because we are time-blind [0]. Whether it’s a calendar, setting reminders, etc.

“People with ADHD know what to do, but they can’t do what they know.”

[0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JowPOqRmxNs

Re: The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

#253

This article feels like it was written for my brother. He's been fired, sequentially, 4 times in roles of progressively narrower scope/salary. From project manager (80k+) at a large NYC-BASED structured-cabling company to a billing coordinator position ( It makes me want to put my head into a pillow and scream because he's an intelligent, sociable and kind person but his mind just sits so juxtaposed from what these c…

This resonates with me a lot. I've been through a lot of jobs, each time starting with a combination of excitement ("Yay, I got the job!") and fear ("I hope I don't mess this one up. I've really gotta keep it for at least a year"). The novelty of a new job pushes you through the first month or two, and then things get harder and harder to complete. My mind is buzzing with thoughts, ideas, side projects and they slowly creep into your brain. Before you know it you're sitting at you computer for 8 hours but getting nothing done.

Wishing your brother the best.

Re: The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

#254

Imho this whole ADHD/adderall thing is just the pharma industry peddling medication and shilling super hard. I wouldn't be surprised if pharma dollars somehow influenced this BBC article getting published If some people like paying an additional tax to the pharmaceutical industry, good for them. For me personally, I'd rather jump off a cliff then support it Before someone gets shitty with me for "denying their experi…

I feel you in a sense that I have attention disorder. I tried the meds once and they are freakin amazing. I know what my mind is capable of on them now (2x-10x) but I'm also truly in love with my mind/body/soul as-is and won't cheat on them.

Re: The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

#255
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went in an ADHD rabbit hole a week ago. I never considered my self suffering from it, my quirks were individual parts of my character! But now I highly suspect I have it. I lose focus all the time. For example, Going from doing laundry, to gathering dishes, and bringing out trash without finishing one of them. Or I can't read long articles with topics that are important for me but don't tickle one of my interests.…

> Or I can't read long articles with topics that are important for me but don't tickle one of my interests. Can't concentrate on boring things - surely that's normal? It feels like they're casting the ADHD net wider and wider and from reading the internet I'm starting to question whether my behavior fits into the ADHD category. And part of me wants it to so that I have a label that explains and excuses me. But how do…

Having trouble concentrating on boring things is normal. But with ADHD it goes beyond that. I have half a dozen books on various software development topics started. I am a software developer by profession and by hobby. All of them are on subjects that interest me, it's why I picked them up in the first place. I have paid personal time at my job that I could use to finish them. I love to read. Give me a book in a genre I enjoy and I can finish a 400+ page paperback in a day and half.

Every single one of those books hit a point where they stopped being something I could read. I don't know why. The subject still interests me and there's more to learn. I know I should finish them, I consciously want to finish them. And every time I think about sitting down to finish them, my mind will come up with a thousand other things for me to do instead. And it's not just all "interesting" vs "not interesting". My mind will decide that cleaning the dishes, filling up the car or sorting through and deleting all the emails older than 7 years is something more important than finishing any of those books. I assure you the topics of those books are vastly more interesting to me than any of those chores. But for some reason my lizard brain has ranked reading and finishing those books below even the chores.

I finished one such book in the last 10 years of my career, and I only did that because I made finishing it part of a annual goal / metric. And even then it took until the last month of the year and I had to dedicate a fixed time every single day where I forced myself to sit down and read a fixed number of pages no matter what.

That's more than just "can't concentrate on boring things". Those topics aren't boring. Reading isn't boring. The chores my head will convince me to do before reading those books are more boring. And yet those books will remain unread, at least for years, and if past performance is indicative of future behavior, for the rest of my life, because it's impossible for me to sustain the amount of focus and sheer determination it would take to finish those books they way I finished one. Unless and until my brain moves them up the "importance" list, they will forever remain yet another thing I've started and never finished.

And it's not just a "maybe you just find reading non-fiction really boring", it happens with other forms of media content. John Winans (John's Basement on YouTube) has a series he's been doing on building a Z80 computer from the board design up. Massively interesting stuff to me, a subject that I've always found fascinating, having grown up after the home brew computer generation and never having gone into hardware even though I really want to know more about it. The original video dropped over a year ago, and at first I was following with each new video and then one day my head decided this was no longer a priority. He's made 54 videos so far and I've made it through 22 of them. I have a tab with the playlist open. That tab has been open since last year, and the last one I watched was 2 months ago, before that it had been another 3 months and 3 more before that. When I finished the last video, I wondered why it had taken me so long, I was really enjoying it. And then I have't been able to get my head to want to start the next one. I've watched multiples of hours since of other videos. I've had days when I was bored or sick and just watching whatever dumb content caught my eye. The list was there there the whole time, and I never could get myself to keep going. Again, I can't explain why, there's nothing boring about the videos, they're certainly more engaging than a lot of content I've watched since I watched the last one. But the list sits there, more videos get added, and the longer I go, the more the act of watching the video feels like an insurmountable boring chore that will take everything I have to sit down and do, even if I know I'll enjoy the content the entire time.

I've mentioned here before I started ADHD meds for myself after the pandemic started. That was the fist time in decades of living that I had ever been able to think about something I wanted to get done, decide I was going to do it and then do it without going through a process of fighting myself into it. It's probably the only reason I've watched the 3-4 videos I did manage after my brain decided they weren't a priority any more.

And all of that self struggle and fighting is for things that I don't consciously think are dull or boring. It's worse for things I do. Imagine a task that you have to physically and mentally psych yourself up for. Maybe it's going to the doctor for a physical, maybe it's visiting family on holidays because they're party green and you're party yellow, maybe you're trying to get in shape and it's going to gym or waking up at 5 AM to go for a run. Call this your big hurdle. Now think of all the things in your daily life that are "boring". Making food, washing dishes, putting them away, washing laundry, putting that away, filling out TPS reports, documenting changes, making appointments, cleaning rooms, paying bills. Imagine that the same effort and energy you have to put into your hurdle also has to go into any mundane "boring" task that isn't in the top 3 things you'd rather be doing right this moment. That's so much more than "can't concentrate on boring things", and so much more exhausting.

Re: The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

#256

This article feels like it was written for my brother. He's been fired, sequentially, 4 times in roles of progressively narrower scope/salary. From project manager (80k+) at a large NYC-BASED structured-cabling company to a billing coordinator position ( It makes me want to put my head into a pillow and scream because he's an intelligent, sociable and kind person but his mind just sits so juxtaposed from what these c…

Hey. Sorry to hear this. I have also been fired a bunch of times, and people describe interacting with me in the exact same way as you just described it. Your brother is consistently going for the wrong kind of job, from the sound of it. Operations jobs. I eventually succeeded when I switched to work that is more strategic and creative. I got really into language learning, blogging, website building, and then just fo…

I think I'm like you. I'm usually the smartest guy in the room, a phenomenal problem solver and brainstormer, and a great engineer and lawyer. I'm currently doing great in a very easy and rewarding job I stumbled into, but it has a time limit. I tried stimulants years ago but it made me feel physically awful (jaw grinding, digestive problems, heart palpitations, exhaustion, etc.) and didn't actually help (I'd just get hyperfocused on distractions). Also tried guanfacine and had other negative reactions. I've actually been thinking of starting a business as a better match than a desk job before I saw all this ADHD founder talk. Reading these comments makes me feel so encouraged. Thank you.

Re: The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

#257

This article is basically just one giant pharmaceutical advertisement. Consider this excerpt: “I had a tough time grappling with the sorts of executive functioning that our world operates by, like being able to set up meetings, follow through with things, focus and be detail oriented,” he says. His manager had pointed out these failings for months, which is why his termination was hardly shocking. Folks, learn how to…

When I was in school, I would get in trouble for forgetting to turn in homework. Why didn't I turn it in? Because I would forget I had homework and that it was in my bag. Sometimes I would get in trouble for not doing homework. Why didn't I do it? Because I forgot it was due that day, or I forgot I had it at all. So I was given a book to write down all of my assignments, and when they were due, and check them off when I was done with them, and to review every day so I knew what I should turn in.

I continued to forget to turn in assignments. Why did I forget them? Because I forgot to check my book to see if I had any assignments to turn in, in addition to forgetting I had it and it was in my bag. I continued to get in trouble for forgetting to do assignments. Why did I forget them? Because I would forget to write them in my book, or I would forget to write down when they were due, or I'd forget to even check the book in the first place, or I would forget the book at home, or in the last class. Or I would forget my pen and not have anything to write in the book with and then forget what I was looking for a pen for by the time I got a new one.

Don't get me wrong. I still use books, post it notes and organizational tools to help me in my profession. Bug trackers are a god send for me. But so is the fact that Slack archives every discussion I have, and gmail never forgets anything no matter how much you wish it would. And that's important because I still often forget to write something in a todo list, or the bug tracker. I've trained myself to check 5-10 different sources of "tasks" before I consider something done because I don't remember where I put everything, and I never remember to put everything in one place. Even with all of that, there are still things I'll forget from time to time.

Do you remember old clip art CDs and galleries? They all used to have a clip art of a finger with a string tied around it. That's clip art for a "reminder". I never understood how that was supposed to work, because if I ever tied a string around my finger to remind me about something, I'd be lucky if I remembered the string was there at all, let alone what it was supposed to remind me about. Tools are often just one more thing to try and remember.

Re: The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

#258
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strattera (atomoxetine) is a commonly used SNRI developed for adhd. I personally had a very bad reaction to it, but it allegedly helps some people. Guanfacine is another, I haven't tried it, so I can't give any first hand experience. I think it's used more to help blood pressure & agitation that can come up with adhd Welbutrin is also commonly used.

Guanfacine is great, good for anxiety and agitation, helps with amphetamine side effects too. As far as task management goes it seems to help with focus, not so much with motivation - I still need amphetamines for that.

I tried guanfacine and it made my resting heart rate go down to 40. Was also feeling a tiny little bit more labored while breathing. I really liked the other effects though. I stayed on it for two months or so but stopped for fear of long term side effects. From my research, it looks like I had an atypical but not unheard of reaction.

Re: The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

#259
Diagnosed with ADHD at age 8, able to make it through school but struggling at work. Fired last Tuesday. My plan now is better treatment, mindset, and work environment. One problem is stimulants mess with my heart. Does anyone have any advice? Does modafinil work? Would appreciate some advice from people in tech with this problem, thank you.

Re: The silent struggles of workers with ADHD

#260
I wonder if the workplace has gradually become worse for ADHD workers as the number of secretaries continues to decline[0]. Anecdotally, early in my career when I had little sway, I was often tasked with scheduling meetings, taking minutes, and keeping track of various things on behalf of my boss while still having to perform my own job. I think this sort of role would have been previously handled by a secretary that workers at my boss’ level no longer have access to.

Keeping track of that logistical stuff is a nightmare and is directly incompatible for most with ADHD. And then as the ADHD worker progresses in their career, they no longer get a secretary who would have offloaded these incompatible tasks for them previously. This new setup distracts ADHD workers from focusing on what they’re good at. It then becomes a terrible look to a neurotypical (NT) person when an ADHD person forgets a meeting or a little request that isn’t part of their core work. To an NT individual, forgetting to do these little things is baffling, but it’s a part of having ADHD.

Add in an environment where people want to have meetings all the time and instant messaging services constantly pinging your computer, and I can see how the modern workplace is a very tough situation for an ADHD worker to demonstrate that they’re going above and beyond when their workflow is not catered to. I do think the shift to working from home from the previous open office layouts is very much in favor to those with ADHD, so it’s not all bad.

Perhaps one day there won’t be such a stigma against neurodiversity where those who are neurodivergent (ND) have to hide it and mask during the entire working day. If we reach that point, we’ll be able to put ND individuals in environments that let them achieve their full potentials and thrive in situations where NT individuals cannot.

[0] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/office-and-administrative-support/se...

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