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The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

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Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#251

Post by IncRnd »

luckylion wrote: post #241
IncRnd wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course Amazon accepts cash. Cash on Delivery is one way. [1] Other ways are listed on Amazon's webpage entitled "Shop on Amazon, pay in cash". [2] Also, Amazon has teamed up with Western Union for your cash oriented shopping needs. [3] [1] https://www.amazon.eg/-/en/gp/help/customer/display.html?nod... [2] https://smile.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=19428273011&sa-no-re... [3] https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019…

So, it's "in egypt", and "yeah, you can use your cash at a bank that will send it to us digitally, because we don't take cash". Obviously Amazon supports system that let you convert cash into digital, but that's something else.

No, it's not just "in Egypt". That's completely wrong.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#252

Post by IncRnd »

monero-xmr wrote: post #218
IncRnd wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A crypto exchange or vpn is not quite the same as a store that sells goods like groceries, clothes or electronics or services like a lawyer's time, a doctor's visit or a haircut. I don't see any mainstream websites listed on that website. Regular people are unable to use crypto as money for regular things.

VPN industry is multi-billion, crypto exchanges are multi-billion, hosting is multi-billion. These are real industries - I mean a lot of people on HN are employed in companies that support and provide data / server hosting. It starts with digital services and it spiders out from there. Enthusiasts who own retail stores accept crypto as a novelty or marketing strategy, but in 25 years it could be much more common.

None of that actually applies to this discussion, which is about crypto not being money. The example given for crypto being money was a website that listed things that are not goods and services people use to live their lives. The goods that people use to live are not vpns and secret crypto exchanges but groceries, automobiles, clothing, doctor appointments, etc.

If you have some other list of goods and services that people can repeatedly and reliably purchase using crypto, you can provide that to show that crypto is money. The earlier list is almost entirely crypto exchanges and vpns, which is hardly a useful list of goods and services for normal day to day products that people use.

If you can't purchase goods and services with crypto, crypto is not money.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#253

Post by IncRnd »

monero-xmr wrote: post #249
Kye wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "It starts with digital services and it spiders out from there." Silk Road was 11 years ago. When?

The first electric car was made over 100 years ago and they are still only a fraction of all the cars on the road. Revolutionary tech doesn’t always take over in 10 years let alone 100.

You're pushing a fake, invented history. Electric cars existed in the 1830's - about 200 years ago and 52 prior to gasoline powered cars. Electric cars were supplanted by gasoline powered cars. It's NOT that they just haven't caught on, yet.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#255

Post by imachine1980_ »

rvalue wrote: post #254

But the entire banking system based on fractional reserve banking is a ponzi scheme. No?

short answer not. banks in fractional reserves make money for the commission of lending,if your account get more interest this year this means they also lend to more interest. yes isn't 100 but chase bank and citi bank is here for 200 YEARS. short answer no it isn't, i don't like the banking system but that doesn't mean is pyramid scheme.

does crypto is inescapable pyramid scheme, no. even when the landscape is full of scam it doesn't mean that stripe or bitwage or usdt who pay you in crypto to easy international transfer process, they make small cut in the transaction like any other transfers company, for the contrast the number of companies whose only proposition ins the pump and dump the value of their virtual games from shinucrypto to literal ponzi scheme like bitconect. i wish you understand what i say, i will clarify what i say if you need, English inst my first langues

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#256

Post by carewell »

sershe wrote: post #207
carewell wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think parent commenter's argument is that it's hard to get excited about crypto just based on the fact that it allows some people buy drugs online. While millions of investors lose a ton of money to crypto scams.

If you generalize from drugs example, crypto (may) help you do things governments do not want you to do. Drugs are just one widespread restriction; and you may view Western governments as generally competent and benevolent (to be clear, I do not), and drug prohibition as necessary evil. But it's hard to claim that most governments around the world and competent and benevolent, and easy to get excited about people bei…

I would love to agree with this argument. And maybe 5 years ago I would have. But so far crypto has not demonstrated that it can really solve the issues you are listing. Yes, it can result in some capital outflow from oppressive countries, but that does not have a big impact on these people or the regimes. The stories that are being written are not of a hard-working farmer who was able to save some monero and move it to a different country anonymously. Instead, we are seeing millions of people lose their savings and/or investments. I acknowledge that things might change in the future. But as of now I am not optimistic.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#257

Post by thunky »

luckylion wrote: post #181
jeremyjh wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that's why they accept it at Amazon and Alibaba right?

Amazon doesn't accept cash. Is cash not money? They don't accept $foreignCurrency either, is that no longer money when you cross the border? Or do you mean "money is what you can use to pay your taxes"? That works to exclude crypto, at least for most of the world.

> Amazon doesn't accept cash. Is cash not money?

Cash is one form of USD, which is money.

In case you're wondering, a cash-only business accepts money too.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#258

Post by tradertef »

cuteboy19 wrote: post #228
tradertef wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Also Bitcon =/= Crypto.

But tether is propping up btc. Most large btc holders desperately want tether to hold together

I am not a large BTC holder (haha), but I would be happy that it collapses (if it is really not backed) and Bitcoin can move forward. I am really happy that Celsius, FTX, Luna etc are cleaned up and hope people will take a lesson and stick with basics.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#259

Post by jeremyjh »

TrianguloY wrote: post #135
jeremyjh wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't money. Money can be easily exchanged for goods and services. It is a digital "asset" whose only meaningful application is speculative trading...of itself. If something only has value because you think you can sell it to the next sucker for more, it is a ponzi scheme.

> If something only has value because you think you can sell it to the next sucker for more, it is a ponzi scheme. Careful with that sentence. It is applicable to paintings, stamps, and collecting in general. True that on those other cases you have a physical object, so it has a value (as opposed to nft) but usually it's far less. A Pokemon card costs almost nothing, but some people are willing to pay millions for it…

This seems like a good point. I'm not sure I agree about paintings, but sure let's take Pokemon cards. These have only a little bit of intrinsic value - you can use them to play a game that is fun for 8 year olds. They only become more valuable because people speculate that their value may increase in the future. Why do they think that?

Well, it happened with baseball cards and comics, and then everything else. But let's go back to baseball cards. Why did some of them become so valuable? Just a guess but maybe its because they became rare, yet retained nostalgia value. Kids who bought them in the 20s and 30s treated them like the worthless scraps of cardboard that they were. Most were lost or destroyed. But decades later if they came across some they evoked a powerful emotion, maybe the sort of emotion I feel when see the login prompt on a Vic-20 maybe. So they started collecting them, and of course they had the most demand for the legendary players who they idolized as kids, so the value of those went up. After that, its mostly just people speculating. But there was a kernel of real value there to begin.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#260

Post by IncRnd »

koonsolo wrote: post #151
jeremyjh wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't money. Money can be easily exchanged for goods and services. It is a digital "asset" whose only meaningful application is speculative trading...of itself. If something only has value because you think you can sell it to the next sucker for more, it is a ponzi scheme.

Here is a valid use-case for crypto (Monero): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31996612

> Here is a valid use-case for crypto (Monero): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31996612

The very first comment on that use case is, "Please allow me to offer you a free rsync.net account, in perpetuity, for the backup portion of your requirements." [1] Saying that the use case for Monero is to compete with zero-cost services doesn't offer a compelling use-case for Monero.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31998255

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