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Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

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Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#251

Post by cycomanic »

newaccount74 wrote: post #200
cycomanic wrote: post #179

I find the framing of the conversation around problems with the patent system to largely be about patent trolls quite disingenuous. This might sound controversial, but patent trolls are pretty much the only way for a "small inventor" to monetize a patent (note not invention). If say IBM violates your patent an individual or even a moderate startup or company has absolutely no chance of defending it, because IBM will…

I think the story of "small inventor makes big contribution" is very misleading. If an invention is small enough that someone can make it without spending significant resources, it is probably obvious enough that you shouldn't be allowed to patent it, because it is more likely other people incidentally have the same idea than they are "stealing" it. The only scenario where patents make sense is when a research group…

Sure I somewhat agree with you. However my argument applies just as much if you exchange sole inventor with research group. The funny thing is "protecting the small inventor" is often stated as the purpose of the patent system, while in reality it is largely the big incumbents that are protected

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#252

Post by tiahura »

arthurofcharn wrote: post #249

I just want to thank whoever tipped off the judge about these shenanigans. To the mole that I suspect exists within MAVEXAR, you have my thanks. I request that the mole copy all the hard drives that he/she has access to, so that the mole has leverage if caught. It would make a fine letter to your senator. Stay safe out there.

What exactly are the shenanigans? Patents are transferable. Creating LLC’s for a specific transaction is perfectly legal.

This judge was getting awfully close to invading the attorney-client relationship. I would have to think hard, and review the law, before answering, or letting my client answer some of those questions.

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#253

Post by nostrebored »

btrettel wrote: post #155
temporallobe wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do contracting for USPTO and have another perspective as an insider to their technology and internal processes (not legal), who works very closely with examiners and other stakeholders. The tools that patent examiners use is quite awful. Like many other government agencies, it’s embedded with legacy tools that are extremely obtuse, difficult to use, and time consuming. Many of these tools are decades old, unreliabl…

I'll agree that many of the tools are bad. I have a particular dislike for how slow Word is. But, I don't think that transitioning everything to the cloud is necessarily going to help. Word is slow many times because it freezes up when syncing. And a lot of the tools are good. EAST and PE2E Search have a lot of great features for power searchers that I'd like to see in tools outside of the USPTO. (But they also have…

But wouldn’t doubling the time reduce pressure for innovation here?

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#254

Post by AlbertCory »

cycomanic wrote: post #250
AlbertCory wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several errors in your analysis, while it IS accurate that "suing IBM" is difficult for a small inventor. First, patent trolls have a very simple business model (and I heard this from a former troll): - Don't even sue the real easy marks, the ones who will just write a check for $50,000 to make you go away. Just threatening them is enough. - Sue the slighter harder targets. For these, you have to actually f…

I don't understand how anything you wrote invalidates my argument. Yes, the inventor does not get the full settlement amount, but some money is still better than a lot of debt that they might end up with if going after IBM themselves. Regarding the broadness of patents, my point is they don't advance technology or the sciences (the oft stated goal of patents), because they try to cover everything without revealing an…

> I don't understand how anything you wrote invalidates my argument. Yes, the inventor does not get the full settlement amount, but some money is still better than a lot of debt that they might end up with if going after IBM themselves.

As I agreed. However, you're wrong that a troll necessarily goes after the infringer you know about, and in fact they may not even bother.

Secondly, "broadness" is a term of art in patents. It doesn't mean what you think it does. It doesn't mean "advancing technology." It means the scope of things covered by the claims.

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#255

Post by nostrebored »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #205
mring33621 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"move to the cloud" is a top strategic objective in my org I have explained why it should not be, but Mgmt does not care. Everyone's doing it. We NEED to do it. I believe we are in a mix of FOMO, resume-driven development and empire-building. Ok, I can tell that you want me to expand. Here goes: Cloud may offer: 1) improved scalability (both horizontal and vertical) 2) improved availability 3) reduced cost None of th…

> 3) reduced cost From what I've always heard, of all the benefits the cloud has, reduced cost is not one of them unless your compute need is exceptionally small (ie, you only need a few t3.* instances).

That’s because nobody who cut costs feels compelled to go out and proselytize about it. At the start of the pandemic I helped dozens of customers cut their spending to $XX pm as they were inherently crippled during COVID (think travel, hospitality). My management team at AWS supported this effort. It was actually one of our strategic goals.

Anti cloud zealots are having their time just like pro cloud zealots did. You have to understand your workloads and cloud offerings to see if it’s right for you.

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#256

Post by AlbertCory »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #208
AlbertCory wrote: post #171

I'm a patent agent and I worked in Google's Patent Litigation department. This is a slight hyperbole, but only slight: I can bust any software patent. I found the prior art that prevented Google Maps from being shut down in Germany: https://www.themarysue.com/google-maps-facing-german-ban/ @btrettel is right that examiners need more time, but that would mean the PTO would have to hire a lot more of them. A better sol…

What are your thoughts on Alice ? I thought that precluded most software patents from being valid. It is a fairly recent precedent, though, so the common knowledge about software patents is still very much about the pre-Alice world.

> What are your thoughts on Alice?

SCOTUS keeps slapping down the CAFC, and the CAFC just keeps weaseling their way out of it. It will take clear legislative direction to slay this dragon once and for all.

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#257

Post by mikewarot »

nostrebored wrote: post #253
btrettel wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll agree that many of the tools are bad. I have a particular dislike for how slow Word is. But, I don't think that transitioning everything to the cloud is necessarily going to help. Word is slow many times because it freezes up when syncing. And a lot of the tools are good. EAST and PE2E Search have a lot of great features for power searchers that I'd like to see in tools outside of the USPTO. (But they also have…

But wouldn’t doubling the time reduce pressure for innovation here?

Improving the time/quality of examination would reduce the number of bad patents, and thus raise the bar for something to get patented, requiring MORE actual innovation, and less fake process based crap.

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#259

Post by pj_mukh »

oogali wrote: post #248
pj_mukh wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either way, when a judge demands a physical "principal place of business", we can't answer "the cloud". When that's the actual answer. "mailing address because a process server or government employee must be able to physically walk into the premises" Yea, that would be the CEO's house if their spouse is home, maybe.

Or an actual registered agent. Again, the registered agent does not have to be the address of any of the principals of the business. But it must be a place that is open during standard business hours and accept process notices or legal correspondence upon behalf of the business. https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/what-is-a-registered-agen...

Yes, and again, a business with a PO Box and a registered agent will be deemed "sketchy" by this judge, and more generally by the judicial system and in some cases the IRS as well.

I realize a lot of business do this, and have survived fine, but that's not the point I'm making.

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#260

Post by markdown »

pj_mukh wrote: post #259
oogali wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or an actual registered agent. Again, the registered agent does not have to be the address of any of the principals of the business. But it must be a place that is open during standard business hours and accept process notices or legal correspondence upon behalf of the business. https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/what-is-a-registered-agen...

Yes, and again, a business with a PO Box and a registered agent will be deemed "sketchy" by this judge, and more generally by the judicial system and in some cases the IRS as well. I realize a lot of business do this, and have survived fine, but that's not the point I'm making.

> but then he's gotta actually live for a significant amount of time there and receive mail for the company?

Ummm... yes? Unless you're running a fly by night operation, why wouldn't the CEO make himself available to the world at a physical address?

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