FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows • Hacker News Board

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#251

Post by micromacrofoot » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 9:13 PM UTC

prange wrote: post #244

micromacrofoot wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess to put it another way: I care about what has happened, but don't care to speculate about what hasn't happened yet.

That doesn’t make sense. Saying the FBI should be defunded is explicitly speculating about what hasn’t happened yet.

Look you're wasting your time here, the way I think is irrelevant to you and this is some very specific hair splitting.

Anyway, I have the compulsive need to explain it.

I'm not speculating about what an ex-president would do because he's not the president, and might not ever be. There's a good chance that speculating about it is a waste of time. It's definitely a waste of time now, because the earliest he'd become president again is 3 years from now.

The FBI exists. It continues to exist. I don't think it should based on a myriad of past actions. I can write letters to congresspeople and the president about the FBI, and they're people in power now that I don't need to speculate about.

So we have the intangible, and the tangible.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#252

Post by prange » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 9:40 PM UTC

micromacrofoot wrote: post #251

prange wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t make sense. Saying the FBI should be defunded is explicitly speculating about what hasn’t happened yet.

Look you're wasting your time here, the way I think is irrelevant to you and this is some very specific hair splitting. Anyway, I have the compulsive need to explain it. I'm not speculating about what an ex-president would do because he's not the president, and might not ever be. There's a good chance that speculating about it is a waste of time. It's definitely a waste of time now, because the earliest he'd become p…

You don’t need to explain, but I am actually interested. I don’t see it as hair splitting.

My point is that Trump may not be president now, and it seems you see that as a binary.

He is currently head of a large political organization that pre-dates the FBI which made him president once and may do so again.

Currently serving Republican politicians are calling for the FBI to be defunded because they support him.

https://news.yahoo.com/republican-calls-defund-fbi-boost-090...

He hasn’t stopped existing, nor has the organization that supports him any more than the FBI has.

We simply disagree that one is tangible and the other is not.

In any case, there is a huge gap between writing to your congress person to complain about past FBI abuses, and ‘defund the FBI’.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#253

Post by prange » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 9:43 PM UTC

Banyonite wrote: post #240

prange wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it seems to take only the inevitable one or two odd instances of corruption to start the rot that will bring it down This seems to be based on the premise that there could ever be a system that was somehow perfectly free or corruption to begin with. I think that’s far fetched. I think all human systems are messy and are going to contain some instances of corruption. The question is simply whether the level of corru…

>> I think that’s far fetched. I like to think of it as wishful thinking. I fantasize about winning the lottery, too. >> The question is simply whether the level of corruption reaches the level... Yeah, agreed. I couldn't point to a single instance where an attempt to eliminate corruption did not eventually spawn unintended (bad) consequences. Working to manage it seems to be the best alternative.

> Working to manage it seems to be the best alternative.

Yeah - I tend to agree.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#254

Post by Tozen » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 9:45 PM UTC

iudqnolq wrote: post #124

bell-cot wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, yes - bad cops are bad, and there are plenty of bad cops. Very bad. Might anyone point to an example (current or historical) of a large, complex, socially diverse society which has managed to tightly control actually-serious crime, while also managing to keep the "bad cop stuff" well below the level which America has been stuck with in the past ~half of a century?

A randomly selected citizen has a smaller chance being abused by the police in any rich country and nearly any poor country. People can point to horrible police misconduct cases in other countries, but you need an immense amount of police misconduct to reach American levels. Here's a list of the top ten countries ranked by police killings per year. Note this isn't adjusted by population. Note also that the other coun…

> ...the other countries on this list aren't the sort you'd expect to produce good statistics.

But those expecting the U.S. to produce good statistics, will just as likely be disappointed (or happy... depending on point of view). Dare we wonder why that is so?

"Black Americans were 3.5 times as likely to be killed by the police..." (oops, that looks "inconvenient" for accurate reporting).

"...the initial findings of coroners or medical examiners downplayed or omitted the role of the police when a Black man was killed..." Dare we wonder if under full reporting, if that 3.5 times more likely to be killed would go even higher.

More Than Half of (U.S.) Police Killings Are Mislabeled, New Study Says (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/30/us/police-killings-underc...)

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#255

Post by landemva » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 10:15 PM UTC

AustinDev wrote: post #101

RetpolineDrama wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also have the seemingly unique and blatantly unconstitutional power to imprison you for ""lying"" to them. The actual wording/charge is "providing false statements", which means anything that they can later suggest is untrue . This is why you should never, ever speak with anyone associated with the FBI even if they are being "friendly". Say they knock at the door and have questions for you about your shady neigh…

The 'best' part about this power is they don't record their interrogations. All of the 'truth' from the interview is recorded on paper by the FBI agents.

Except when FBI does a sham interview to protect an insider. Then no oath to tell truth and no notes. Makes for an easy white-wash of serious crimes.

https://thehill.com/homenews/286849-fbi-didnt-record-clinton...

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#256

Post by landemva » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 10:19 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #185

yummypaint wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This takes me back to conversations in the middle school cafeteria. When was the last time you had to bribe a US official to get basic tasks done like register your car? In places that actually have criminal governments this is the norm. Do some research about what it's like in places where there is truly no mechanism for people to remove those in power. Look at russia and the mechanisms by which decisions are made a…

> A democratic government is the means by which the population prevents the monopoly on legal violence from falling permanently into the hands of any individual That would be nice if we had a “democracy”. Because of both gerrymandering and the design of the constitution - 2 senators per state, and the electoral college - we don’t have one. The “majority” doesn’t care as long as law enforcement is used unfairly agains…

The Constitution had the House grow with increase in population. Congress stopped that growth so now lobbyists have the access.

Two Senators per State worked ok when appointed by State because Senators would get recalled and replaced if they voted against State's interests. Now the people vote on Senators and the lobbyists have the access and control.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#257

Post by scarface74 » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 10:34 PM UTC

landemva wrote: post #256

scarface74 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A democratic government is the means by which the population prevents the monopoly on legal violence from falling permanently into the hands of any individual That would be nice if we had a “democracy”. Because of both gerrymandering and the design of the constitution - 2 senators per state, and the electoral college - we don’t have one. The “majority” doesn’t care as long as law enforcement is used unfairly agains…

The Constitution had the House grow with increase in population. Congress stopped that growth so now lobbyists have the access. Two Senators per State worked ok when appointed by State because Senators would get recalled and replaced if they voted against State's interests. Now the people vote on Senators and the lobbyists have the access and control.

So you’re saying it was better when the state legislators had control? That’s even less democratic.

You realize that the “states interest” back in the 60s was the continuing of Jim Crow laws in the South. How many Trump supporting states would have recalled Senators in the 2020 for not agreeing to give him the Presidency?

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#258

Post by metadat » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 11:52 PM UTC

notch656a wrote: post #249

shiftpgdn wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have personally been threatened by FBI agents with threats of being charged for "making false statements" to compel me to divulge information on an investigation. I believe it may be a common tool in their playbook based on how quickly they utilized it.

Feds are shifty bastards. I had one come to my house. When I refused to speak, and I started shutting the door, they stuck their hand in so they could claim assault if I shut it. Fortunately I was using my hand to close it, rather than slamming it as I normally do, and I was able to stop it before it hit their hand. We stared at each other in silence for a solid minute and they left. Fucking weird.

That is creepy as hell, sounds like you had an encounter with Agent Smith from The Matrix, except for reals.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#259

Post by themitigating » Thu, Oct 13, 2022, 1:04 AM UTC

notch656a wrote: post #246

themitigating wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of lobbying with a group of citizens to get someone elected it's easier to start an armed attack on the mob leadership? If you lose your dead, that's not the case in a democracy

A pure democracy is if you lose you can be voted dead. In a constitutional democracy it may not be so direct: i.e. if the majority elect officials that favor say large automotive companies that are permitted to introduce externalities to the water supply that make you dead (see flint water crisis) -- or say your county elects a sheriff who is known to shoot people in 'bad shoots' and then the democratically elected o…

That's an indirect death. In the mafia analogy the mafia is the government and challenging them requires force which can result in death.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#260

Post by themitigating » Thu, Oct 13, 2022, 1:05 AM UTC

waboremo wrote: post #233

themitigating wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what is your alternative? Because if you don't want to push democracy what are you pushing?

There seems to be a misunderstanding here. If we view our governments the same way we do HR as the above comment suggests, as in they have another group controlling their interests over our own, then democracy does not exist within this structure.

And what is the other group ?