Live data from Hacker News

Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

nltimes.nl

251–260 of 466 posts

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#251
post #63

Some employers want to be able to take random photos to ensure remote workers are working at their computer during business hours.

The employee argued they had access to their computer screen at all time and could fully monitor their laptop which should be enough. The court agreed.

That should be MORE than enough. IMO an employers access to the screen and keystrokes should be zero.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#252
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes are the membership fee of society

There are many public finance options to fund society in more equal way than taking a persons labor. If there is anything akin to "wage slavery" in modern times it is more because of income tax than anything else Personal I am supporter of the Henry George Single Tax model to fund society instead of income based taxation

> If there is anything akin to "wage slavery" in modern times it is more because of income tax than anything else

Don't invent stuff to make an argument. Wage slavery is what happens in the 'free market'. The very invention of wage slavery was to make conditions of slavery happen after slavery was abolished so that former slaveowners wouldnt go bankrupt. It was implemented in post civil war US, then it was copied by Brazilian slaveowners when slavery was abolished in Brazil.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#253
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right you are paid X currency for X labor. How is paying employees to sit at home not working anything other than charity/

It’s because when you hire employees they come with the aspect of being “people”. People work to live, they don’t live to work.

This has the very very close connotation to "from each according to ability to each according to need"

I live a very frugle life, my expenses are low, I have no kids, I dont take expensive vacations, drive a fancy car, etc...

So should that mean I do not get time off, or high raises, etc simply because my "needs" are not the same as a co-worker?

Why should a co-workers personal life choices (i.e the choice to have 1 or more children) be a factor in the terms of their employment?

I think employment policies should be agnostic to the personal life choices and situations of employee's infact the employer should not even know if you have kids or not, let alone provide you with "extra" because you do

Sounds like you would support a policy of income based on your personal expenses. Should the programmer with 5 kids make more than the programmer with no kids simply because the programmer with kids has more expenses?

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#254
post #36

I love it when US companies meet Dutch labor laws.

While quality of life in Europe is still great, EU GDP share of the world going down is starting to effect European people more (especially now with the proxy war between US and Russia). I wish Europeans were a bit more business savy and corporate, and not see businesses as just bad things that are part of life, but of course when I’m in US I see the other extreme where businesses want to extract all value from me al…

> I wish Europeans were a bit more business savy and corporate

Seeing how well that worked for the US, no thanks.

The only reason European GDP is going down is because of 10-year-long trade war that was started circa 2005 by the US. It started with tariffs back then, moved onto trying to push NAFTA-like 'trade deals' via TTIP etc, and when all failed, they just blew the pipeline.

Judging from what was done to Japan with 'Plaza Accords', there is no guilt or responsibility of the targeted country and their people in this. Japanese were and still are the most sacrificing, hardworking workers. And yet, after accepting the terms that the US forced on them with those accords, Japanese economy is still in ruins.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#255
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While quality of life in Europe is still great, EU GDP share of the world going down is starting to effect European people more (especially now with the proxy war between US and Russia). I wish Europeans were a bit more business savy and corporate, and not see businesses as just bad things that are part of life, but of course when I’m in US I see the other extreme where businesses want to extract all value from me al…

Oh please. EU countries have more stakes in that conflict considering some of them would be next to be attacked if Russia won in Ukraine. The Russia is an actual threat for EU countries. Which is why the biggest hawks in that conflict are EU countries.

No they aren't. Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal are staying away from it as much as possible. Many central European countries, the same. This is an Anglosaxon + Germanic project, with the addition of Poland. Its their war.

...

There can be no bigger enemy than the country that blew up European pipelines to sink European industry.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-09/european-...

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#256
post #36

I love it when US companies meet Dutch labor laws.

Which is why you make 50% less by the way. Not dumping on the laws, which I think are great, and are probably worth it overall, but there is a cost.

> Which is why you make 50% less by the way

They make 50% less. And they don't have to pay $1000 per head for private insurance, more for other insurance, $3000/month for being able to be a roommate in a 30 m2 apartment. Also they have disability, reasonable retirement, paid vacations and everything that are pretty much nonexistent for American employees.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#257
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Companies are not charities created to employ people. And employees are not charities for their employers! If you can't afford the staff needed for a given task, perhaps you should pivot to something else.

Right you are paid X currency for X labor. How is paying employees to sit at home not working anything other than charity/

> How is paying employees to sit at home not working anything other than charity

They are not sitting at home doing nothing, they are raising children. Helping them to do that is companies' share of investment into the workforce of tomorrow. Your utilitarian "fair" worldview doesn't account for the fact that having kids is insanely profitable to the economy. In modern economies, every kid is worth at least a million bucks over lifetime.

If you choose not to have kids and not contribute in this way, then who's going to foot the $1M or $2M bill for you?

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#258
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Companies are not charities created to employ people. And employees are not charities for their employers! If you can't afford the staff needed for a given task, perhaps you should pivot to something else.

Right you are paid X currency for X labor. How is paying employees to sit at home not working anything other than charity/

Where do new employees came from? Do they materialize adult and fully educated out of thin air? Society-wise new workers are born and raised from preexisting workers. If corporations don't bear some of this burden in minting new employees, they are free-riding.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#259
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it also work to just make everything cheaper for everyone? Housing has increased so much in cost that I wouldn't be surprised that just having housing back to 1980s price levels would give most families enough breathing room with just unpaid leave.

Better yet, shouldn't we just make everything free for everyone? Housing costs are outrageous. It would be great if houses were free. And food too. And cars and clothing. I guess the only problem is then everyone's wage would have to be $0 as well.

I am not the best in keeping up with the Socialist movement.

But this video explains it well, people would still work, just not for a living.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9CFP_58mBc

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Profit in a market economy is derived from a voluntary exchange of goods/services for currency. I buy a Ribeye because I obtian more value from the Ribeye than I do the $18 in my bank account, However if that ribeye goes to $25 I now value the $25 more than the Ribeye so I dont buy it instead I buy a Chicken Breast. These are choices I make in a free(ish) market. Companies offer their goods, I choose to buy or not Si…

> Income Taxation is in no way voluntary exchange like that Take a weekend off and calculate how much 'fees' you would have to pay for 'private defense services', infrastructure, judiciary, police and all the other things if they were made private. > The fact is that the government, like a common thief, says to a person: Your money, or your life What religious delirium. > But the robbery is none the less a robbery on…

>Take a weekend off and calculate how much 'fees' you would have to pay for 'private defense services', infrastructure, judiciary, police and all the other things if they were made private.

This assumes alot of things, like that I reject all forms of taxation which I dont just income based. You know this because you already replied to a comment where I layout my preferred public finance model which you also ignored in that comment in favor of a semantic logical fallacy debate. so i question if you actually want to have an honest conversation

Also it assumes that the cost to private those services would be the exact same under a more private / direct model then our current system (for which my point of view would the the US model). I find that highly suspect and the few times were we have direct attempts at it has proven the current US model has inherent fraud, corruption, and waste that often raises the cost of providing these services by 2x or more.

>What religious delirium.

That is a bit of projection there. Like an adherent to a theocratic religion proclaiming Atheism is a religion. If anything Statism is more akin to a religion than being anti-state or libertarian.

Individualism is about the rejection of a "higher power", in your case this higher power is "the state" having replaced a god or gods

>ll the things that make you live in a modern society instead of living in the former late feudal society

False dilemma fallacy, as if the only option is a extreme over bearing high taxation state or feudalism...

> force that provides this modern society that you live in

Modern society was build by voluntary exchange of free individuals, not government.

> all the rights and freedoms that you have

neither rights nor freedom is provided by government, the entire US model of government is build on the fact that freedoms and rights need to be protected FROM government, the US Constitution is document to ensure government does not infringe upon the people as our founder knew that a government is like fire, a handy servant, but a dangerous master.

Government is to be subservient to the people, not a master of them. At all times the people need to be suspect of government power, and keep very tight control upon it.

Post reply on HN