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Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

reuters.com

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Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#251

Post by cyber_kinetist »

fabian2k wrote: post #122
sprash wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree. People in Germany couldn't care less about Ukraine because it is far away. Most assume that Putin will win this war anyways. However, they care strongly about cheap Gas because it directly influences their lives.

70% of Germans favor continuing support for Ukraine even if that causes high energy prices ( https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/politbarometer-union-... ). This value is practically unchanged for months.

…let’s see how this number goes when winter comes. People generally don’t want themselves to freeze to death.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#252

Post by JumpCrisscross »

lm28469 wrote: post #240
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is supposed to be like that I’ve seen claims that this is for structural reinforcement of sandbags, which makes no sense on multiple levels. (Even if the tank armour can’t resist bullets, a premise which raises its own host of questions, there is better light armour. And even if one insists on sand, a requirement which raises its own host of questions, civil engineering has better solved the problem of immobilis…

> The broader point is, whether designed that way or not, it’s evidence of incompetence. Yet you went for the "aha funny egg cartons how can they be so dumb" narrative instead of the "look they have a shitty army" > Those claims also have zero history before photos of the egg cartons emerged, Besides the literal tank specs and the tweets/websites I linked to from 2017 which was like 5 years before the picture emerged…

Fair enough, I didn't mean to be misleading. The egg cartons aren't literally cardboard. But while nobody can agree on what they were supposed to be doing (encasing missing reactive armor? doing something with sand? voodoo?), there is broad agreement on what it didn't do: serve a useful purpose.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#253

Post by bilsbie »

wobbleblob wrote: post #54
IAmGraydon wrote: post #4

Who would benefit from this?

Isn't that obvious? It's to strengthen Germany's resolve. The temptation to surrender and get the gas turned back on is going to be enormous this coming winter. Germany and several other countries have made plans to shut down parts of heavy industry to save gas for heating. This is more than likely to put increasing pressure on governments to give in to Russia's demands. Now they can't, even if they want to, so that…

I’m not following? Isn’t it less gas?

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#254

Post by funnym0nk3y »

I don't think this was some kind of psy op to drive a wedge between NATO countries as there aren't any benefits from that in the current situation. The only situation my tin foil hat could imagine this being useful is in the event of much stronger tension (like the constant threat of using nukes). This would need a coordinated reaction in which distrust could be fatal. For supplying weapons or sanctions that distrust is not doing much as politically Germany and its allies are more or less on the same page.

However, the blown pipes limit the movement of the German government. It is more stable towards protests if a cold winter occurs as there is no option left to appease Russia as the restrictions in the gas sector aren't a product of a revertible decision anymore. Being cold can't be ignored, which a war in Ukraine can be. In addition, any half-baked compromise Russia could offer accompanied by influencing Germany's opinion with gas isn't an option anymore.

In the end, this could even benefit Germany which lacks clear and brave decisions of its leaders. Not deciding if you want to evade the wall you are driving onto right or left eventually leads to crashing into it

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#255

Post by room606 »

tokai wrote: post #238
koheripbal wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nordstream 2 is fully functional and can be turned on at any time. ...and it carries far more capacity.

No its not. It was damaged like Nordstream 1.

AFAIK, only one of the NS2 pipelines has been damaged. Both branches of NS1 are leaking but there has only been one reported leak on NS2

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#256

Post by glogla »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #75
tokai wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be anyone. Could even be a private person. But yeah its definitely not Russia.

Yep, russia controls "the valve", so it doesn't need to destroy the pipelines, and the minute EU (well, mostly germany) decides to negiotiate, putin can open the valve. With this, even if they negotiate, there won't be any gas soon. So, it's bad for russia, bad for eu, and the only one being better of is USA... who was threathened to do exactly this more than once. https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1490792461979078662

I would say not being able to buy Russian gas is good for EU. Supporting evil empire by buying gas is bad not just for European souls but also for long-term stability, as we can see.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#257

Post by lm28469 »

torginus wrote: post #243
lm28469 wrote: post #214

I bet my left nut that in 50 years we'll learn it was a US operation https://youtu.be/OS4O8rGRLf8?t=95

Why not Ukrainian? I don't understand why wouldn't they want to perform this sabotage against their open enemies? Even openly? I'm wondering why this didn't happen sooner.

Ukraine is still pumping Russian gas to Europe through their own pipeline and are being paid by Russia for it

They could sabotage their own if they really wanted to, or just switch it off.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#258

Post by londons_explore »

funnym0nk3y wrote: post #247
londons_explore wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pipes are typically ~1000 psi. That multiplied by the entire inner volume of a rather long pipe could totally make rather a bang...

Which convinietly covers up any explosion signs...

I think it would be hard to destroy an undersea pipe in a way that looked 'natural'. The broken ends will be cut out and brought ashore for failure analysis, and they'll soon find out if your explosives bent the pipe inwards first...

I think your best bet would be to deliberately snag an anchor around it, and then say 'whoops'.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#259

Post by lizardactivist »

Without a doubt US American sabotage.

During the days and weeks leading up to Russia's move into Ukraine, the US rhetorized over and over again about Nord Stream. All the time the main issue was that the EU must not buy LNG from Russia, it must agree to USAs "energy dominance" politics and buy LNG from them and only them.

This is a way to make sure that when winter comes, the EU has nowhere to go for LNG but to the US.

It's getting more and more clear that the one major obstacle to true US hegemony is not Russia or China, it's the EU with its strict principles, laws and regulations, and that the US is working hard to wear down this resistance and force the EU into dependence and coerciveness.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#260

Post by lizardactivist »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #4

Who would benefit from this?

The US and its energy dominance agenda -- making more and more of the world dependent on US energy solutions.

Did you not read the news in the time leading up to the war in Ukraine? US government and media was complaining more about Nord Stream than they were talking about Ukraine.

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