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We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

erikmcclure.com

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Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#251

Post by dotancohen »

bmitc wrote: post #249

What is the end game of consumer GPUs, primarily for gaming? It seems wasteful (?), not sure of the right word here at the moment, to put all this effort into GPUs for general purpose computers and the downstream problems (cooling, space, mounting, etc.) to get arguable improvements in gaming experiences. There seems to be an outright arms race amongst consumers and manufacturers alike for all this, and I personally…

  > Are there other consumer markets where high-performance is so accepted and common place?
I don't know about today, but a generation of two ago it was street cars, some time before that horses.

Anything measurable will be compared, and people want (more) performance.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#252

Post by dotancohen »

patates wrote: post #246
tcmb wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm getting a Cloudflare error page on that link: 'The owner of this website does not allow hotlinking to that resource'

I could open the link in a private/incognito window.

Same here

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#253

Post by analognoise »

Taniwha wrote: post #170

This is not a new problem, back in the late 80s I worked for a Mac graphics card developer ... We made some of the first 24bit accelerated graphics cards. Our first was just an existing card with a small daughter card with pals an sram on it, it was so easy that we got our own logos put on many of the chips to put the competition off the scent, we designed that one in days and got it to market in weeks. We immediatel…

This might be a weird question, but do you have any rundowns of the architecture handy?

I love Retrocomputing and it sounds like an awesome thing to look at.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#254

Post by bmitc »

dotancohen wrote: post #251
bmitc wrote: post #249

What is the end game of consumer GPUs, primarily for gaming? It seems wasteful (?), not sure of the right word here at the moment, to put all this effort into GPUs for general purpose computers and the downstream problems (cooling, space, mounting, etc.) to get arguable improvements in gaming experiences. There seems to be an outright arms race amongst consumers and manufacturers alike for all this, and I personally…

> Are there other consumer markets where high-performance is so accepted and common place? I don't know about today, but a generation of two ago it was street cars, some time before that horses. Anything measurable will be compared, and people want (more) performance.

But performance street cars feel much more niche than gaming rigs. It does feel that performance (or perceived performance) oriented things in the computer market do seem to bleed into the broader market more than other markets. It's an interesting phenomenon.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#256

Post by justsomehnguy »

Hamuko wrote: post #198
ascar wrote: post #186

I'm surprised this isn't mentioned here more clearly: Some high end cases like the be quiet silent base I'm using have the option to mount the graphics card vertically, basically parallel to the mainboard, in a separate anchor slot. It needs an additional connector cable (~$20), but other than that is easy to setup, looks better with a look-in case (the illuminated fans face the glass side) and the weight pulls on a…

I like my mini-ITX case (Phanteks Shift Air 2) because it hangs the GPU from the top and it's sitting behind a mesh so it still has ample access to fresh air. https://www.kitguru.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/2-Still-8...

Wow, this is almost exactly as I wanted (except I wanted a horizontal mount akin to blade servers). Never seen it, thanks.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#257

Post by pohuing »

topspin wrote: post #104
dragontamer wrote: post #7

1. While I agree we're beginning to reach absurd proportions, lets really analyze the situation and think about it. 2. Are there any GPUs that actually have performed physical damage on a motherboard slot? 3. GPUs are already 2-wide by default, and some are 3-wide. 4-wide GPUs will have more support from the chassis. This seems like the simpler solution, especially since most people rarely have a 2nd add in card at a…

> 2. Are there any GPUs that actually have performed physical damage on a motherboard slot? Yes. I've seen both a heavy GPU and an HSM card damage a slot. One happened when a machine was shipped by a commercial shipper. The other happened when the machine was moved between residences. It doesn't occur to people that the mass of a card swinging around is a problem when the case is moved. The HSM one was remarkable in…

> If you have a big GPU don't let it dangle. Support it somehow.

Or remove it. Takes five minutes to unplug and unscrew a card. Had to do that with my 6900xt recently while moving.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#258

Post by YurgenJurgensen »

Lramseyer wrote: post #202
greggsy wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NUC Extreme line is basically that, which IMO is a really good form factor. Memory and nvme storage are dense enough to make anything larger obsolete for the practical needs of most users. Emphasis on ‘practical’, not strictly ‘affordable’. The only advantages of larger form factors are the ability to add cheaper storage, additional PCI-e cards, and aftermarket cosmetic changes such as lighting. IMO, each of thes…

Pretty much, but I'd change the dimensions of the graphics card to match mini ITX, and so that it could be bolted to the case. This provides two benefits: It can support a bigger and heavier heatsink and it also allows you to spread the VRMs around the chip and DRAMs for more consistent power flow.

Okay, how about this: The PCI slot goes on the bottom of the mini-ITX motherboard, and extends out of the bottom of the case. The GPU is in its own enclosure, with a PCI edge connector on the top, and you stack one on top of the other.

I'd really like to find a way to daisy-chain them, but I know that's not how multi-gigabit interfaces work.

Raspberry Pi hats are cool. Why not big mini ITX hats? Yes, I just want to go back to the time of the Famicom Disk System, the Sega CD or the Satellaview.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#259

Post by YurgenJurgensen »

sfmike wrote: post #102
cyanydeez wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In reality, there is no reason GPUs should be add-ons. Just star designing motherboards with integrated GPUs of sufficient size. Case closed.

With mini cube PCs growing in popularity the future will probably be this, a mini PC with every part a USB type modularity for any ram or GPU or hd into that stock cube PC.

Please no. USB latencies are measured in microseconds. DDR3 latencies are measured in nanoseconds. "USB Ram" would be a disaster.

Re: We Need New Motherboards Before GPUs Collapse Under Their Own Gravity

#260

Post by rwmj »

smilespray wrote: post #197
Taniwha wrote: post #170

This is not a new problem, back in the late 80s I worked for a Mac graphics card developer ... We made some of the first 24bit accelerated graphics cards. Our first was just an existing card with a small daughter card with pals an sram on it, it was so easy that we got our own logos put on many of the chips to put the competition off the scent, we designed that one in days and got it to market in weeks. We immediatel…

I may well have used those cards for work! Radius, RasterOps or SuperMac?

I was going to guess TARGA, but maybe those cards were PC only?
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