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Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

bloomberg.com

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Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#251

Post by MuffinFlavored »

arethuza wrote: post #229
LegitShady wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

koenigsegg makes cars so expensive in numbers so small that they arent relevant to even fairly wealthy people, so its a bit like discussing nasa's latest advances instead of cars that can actually be bought. did koenigsegg do something cool? sure. theres about 100-200 people who dont work at koenigseff whose life that will affect and nobody else. theyre pretty irrelevent.

Things like dual clutch gearboxes seem to an example of something that originated in exotic cars and have made the transition to low end cars. I have a very humble Skoda with DSG and it works really well even though it has a 1L engine :-)

Dual clutch gearboxes are kind of on their way out already, no?

Electric cars don't have gearboxes at all, and electric cars are "what's coming next/the future", no?

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#252

Post by ZeroGravitas »

missjellyfish wrote: post #248
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how I see cargo transport going long term. Even if the individual units only self drive enough to rearrange themselves in private areas before being driven on roads by an actual human, it feels like that could be a 'cargo container' type revolution.

I have a few more revolutionary ideas for this. First off, we need to get this environmentally clean. Obviously, this must all be electric. For last mile, battery electric is the obvious choice; however I think for main routes and highways some kind of wire system would be ideal. This could also charge the battery needed for the last mile or at truck stops and stuff. Next, we need to make sure that these self-driving…

So I quite like trains and multi modal transport generally.

But if trucks are electric then it's not totally obvious to me that trains would win on cost or environmental factors despite the obvious advantage of tracks and direct electrification. They're already trialing overhead wires on some highways for electric trucks.

Luckily we don't need to choose between them anyway.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#253

Post by beeboop »

suction wrote: post #208
ricw wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may have been the case 5 years ago, but these days it’s the opposite. Look at the Munro live Tesla tear downs on YouTube, particularly the megacastings structure, the battery packs or heat pumps. It’s night and day.

Tesla quality is still lightyears behind old premium brands. Panel gaps so wide you could use them as kiddie pools. Their scrap rates are testament of how crappy their production process is.

Do you have a source for Tesla's scrap rates and the scrap rates for other large manufacturers?

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#254

Post by jjulius »

drcross wrote: post #134
chell830 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Waymo and others using LiDAR placed the wrong bet and now have nothing to show for it. Waymo launched their commercial robo-taxi service in 2017. It’s still running today. Open to the public [1]. Meanwhile, Tesla is phasing out their FSD program. Beta-testers, 98 safety score, $15K cost, whatever, current Tesla owners are pissed off. FSD is a sinking ship, just like the Tesla/Elon brand. They used to be cool. [1] h…

You obviously haven't seen the FSD upgrade that was released yesterday.

The update that is only to v10.69, instead of v11 like Musk had suggested would roll out now? The same upgrade that's only rolling out to ~1k FSD-enabled customers (which is only 1% of FSD Beta customers)?

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#255

Post by arethuza »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #251
arethuza wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things like dual clutch gearboxes seem to an example of something that originated in exotic cars and have made the transition to low end cars. I have a very humble Skoda with DSG and it works really well even though it has a 1L engine :-)

Dual clutch gearboxes are kind of on their way out already, no? Electric cars don't have gearboxes at all, and electric cars are "what's coming next/the future", no?

I was merely providing an example of where a technology has "trickled down" from exotics to run of the mill cars.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#256

Post by mhh__ »

iamricks wrote: post #228
LegitShady wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

koenigsegg makes cars so expensive in numbers so small that they arent relevant to even fairly wealthy people, so its a bit like discussing nasa's latest advances instead of cars that can actually be bought. did koenigsegg do something cool? sure. theres about 100-200 people who dont work at koenigseff whose life that will affect and nobody else. theyre pretty irrelevent.

Koenigsegg does innovate a lot in manufacturing car parts for their hypercars, if you watched Christian von Koenigsegg speak about the engineering they do its really impressive. In some alternate universe CVK is making cars that compete with Tesla and are better. Although they make amazing products i wish he and his team of brilliant engineers would work on inexpensive cars, im almost certain they could innovate in t…

They are making a "cheap" car. Maybe only the price of a house rather than a yacht.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#257

Post by mhh__ »

arethuza wrote: post #168
zuhsetaqi wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the fastest in acceleration. Bring it to the Nürburgring and it's by far not the fastest car. Even the Porsche Taycan Turbo S is more than 2 seconds faster[0]. Driving quality or how good a car is is not defined by how fast a car can accelerate. [0] https://www.nuerburgring.de/info/nuerburgring/records

I was surprised by just how much faster the fastest ICE cars are than the fastest electric cars - about 50s faster?

Electric cars are really really heavy, and people looking for a trackday monster are going to buy a 911.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#258

Post by mhh__ »

lm28469 wrote: post #235
benj111 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When everyone has EVs the sound of any IC is going to become increasingly noticeable. I can see a point where IC vehicles are banned from cities on noise grounds alone.

How many Ferraris do you see every day ? For every Ferrari you have hundreds of 1970-80s diesel cars which pollute just as much in every city centers

How often do you see a car from the 80s still on the road?

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#259

Post by mhh__ »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #65
hooloovoo_zoo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ferrari has no choice. They’ll eventually be banned on noise pollution grounds/ be too low performance to be considered super cars if they stick with internal combustion.

Plaid's times around the Nurb show that when weight gets solved with solid state batteries, which is what all the high end cars will use, ICE won't be competitive. And while it's been a bit like fusion power, always a couple years away, enough is happening in solid state that it's probably happening in a couple years. Now, it might now be competitive in the mass market, where I believe sodium ion and LFP/LMFP/etc che…

On a hotlap they'll probably be quick but electric racing cars would still end up spending hours in the pits if they raced at le mans for example

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#260

Post by missjellyfish »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #252
missjellyfish wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a few more revolutionary ideas for this. First off, we need to get this environmentally clean. Obviously, this must all be electric. For last mile, battery electric is the obvious choice; however I think for main routes and highways some kind of wire system would be ideal. This could also charge the battery needed for the last mile or at truck stops and stuff. Next, we need to make sure that these self-driving…

So I quite like trains and multi modal transport generally. But if trucks are electric then it's not totally obvious to me that trains would win on cost or environmental factors despite the obvious advantage of tracks and direct electrification. They're already trialing overhead wires on some highways for electric trucks. Luckily we don't need to choose between them anyway.

> They're already trialing overhead wires on some highways for electric trucks.

Yes, and it's a bad idea. The friction between tarmac and rubber is orders of magnitude worse than steel on steel. Electrification alone doesn't solve the problem.

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