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Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

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Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#251

Post by Tao3300 »

franga2000 wrote: post #190
gruez wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The corollary to this argument is that most environmental issues routinely blamed on individual behavior pale in comparison to the externalities from industry and commerce I agree with internalizing externalities, but let's not pretend that isn't part of individual behavior (consumer demand drives industry), or that individuals don't benefit from them in some way.

The fact that people benefit from something is not enough to assign any blame to them. Even if alternatives exist (they often don't), if they require a significant trade-off, blame is minimal. Even when it comes to buying products it's a tough sell - I know my phone battery is made with slave labor, but it's not like I can choose to buy the one that isn't. So when it comes to industry, we share exactly 0% of the blam…

> In democratic countries, it can be argued that the voter base is at fault for electing these corrupt politicians.

Like the batteries, it's not like I can choose the ones that aren't corrupt. The alternatives don't exist. In the rare event that they do, they get blocked out by the parties or rendered ineffective by their colleagues. At least it's that way here in the US -- which may or may not fit your definition of democracy. The major job requirement for an American politician is how well you can fundraise. And that's just to get a foot in the door of one of the entrenched parties -- they can still just decide to back someone else.

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#252

Post by WorkLobster »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #181
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most dramatic changes an individual can make is switching to a plant based diet. Don’t support fishing, don’t support animal agriculture, and you’re way ahead. Not only in energy expenditure but resource utilization as well. It’s a stunning difference.

Doesn't shipping plant-based food around the planet cause massive climate change? PLant-based diets only make sense if you live somewhere where it's ecologically cheaper to eat plants than animals. This doesn't work, for most of the world.

There's a great and very comprehensive chart by "Our World in Data" about the breakdown of emissions / environmental impact for different foods:

https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/02/Environmental-imp...

As you can see, it specifically points out that the transport aspect pales across the board in comparison with other more important factors.

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#253

Post by ornornor »

cmos wrote: post #220
s_dev wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless it's some guy with a fishing rod or anchovies -- no industrial fishing is not sustainable. Even salmon farms are fed with 20x the mass of smaller wild fish from the ocean. I love eating fish but this is a fact we all have to face.

It is indeed a fact we have to face, and the best way to do it is to stop eating fish, if you have the luxury to be able to do that and other foods are available.

It’s not a luxury in terms of money, for the developed world. Fish is much more expensive than vegetables, soy, and other proteins.

Availability is an issue in poorer locales, but unless you’re a fisherman yourself fish is also quite expensive.

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#254

Post by koheripbal »

sorenbs wrote: post #187
epistasis wrote: post #24

To place this in context, it's 50,000 tons/year of fishing waste, versus 200,000 tons/year of microplastics from car tires: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/14/car-tyre... Further, microplastics enter the ecosystem far easier than the bulky big plastic from fishing gear, so the tire microplastics should be far more concerning to people. It's really weird how cars get a pass for so much. Try to live a…

The big concern around fishing gear is that it is specifically designed to catch marine life, so when it is lost or deliberately discarded in the ocean, it continues to kill for years for no reason at all. The movie Seaspiracy makes this point in a very graphic way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q5CXN7soQg This fact-check runs through all the points of the video in 15 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7QRL…

It's hard to take that trailer for Seaspiracy seriously.

> "We've all heard about blood diamonds. This is blood shrimp." ... "The solution is to leave the sea alone."

It's like a high school teenager wrote this.

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#255

Post by throwaway894345 »

julianlam wrote: post #60
Waterluvian wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t that flawed logic? If you’re proposing that one of these issues can be fixed with more infrastructure, then couldn’t either? Rail is nice.

Sure! Rail is nice, when the volume permits it. How would we supply the supermarket, though? A rail line would be unfeasible.

You don’t need long-haul trucking to get goods to the supermarket, you use rail and then smaller trucks from rail depot to supermarket.

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#256

Post by throwaway894345 »

aaaaaaaaata wrote: post #83
fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we wanted to redesign all our infrastructure to minimize auto and truck miles, we’d probably try to replace long-haul trucking routes with routes that pick up from local rail depots. Everyone would live near a train station (or in larger urban areas, light rail that connects to the train stations). There would be a mostly-separate freight network with depots near every population center. Trucks could be used to ge…

What body has the final say over "we", and where do the funds come from? (More specific than "taxpayers")

I haven’t run numbers, but fewer trucks on highways means dramatically less maintenance—savings could be diverted to pay for rail buildout.

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#257

Post by koheripbal »

Ocean7585 wrote: post #240

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nature_Conservancy#Big_bus... Big business ties The Nature Conservancy has ties to many large companies, including those in the oil, gas, mining, chemical and agricultural industries.[42] As of 2016, its board of directors included the retired chairman of Duke Energy, and executives from Merck, HP, Google and several financial industry groups.[43] It also has a Business Council which…

This has absolutely nothing to do with the article.

Also, almost all large corporations donate to all major charities - that's standard corporate governance. It doesn't mean they somehow influence or undermine articles like this.

Selecting the oil companies alone from the list of donors to imply there's some influence operation going on is highly misleading.

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#258

Post by suoduandao2 »

mc32 wrote: post #104
epistasis wrote: post #24

To place this in context, it's 50,000 tons/year of fishing waste, versus 200,000 tons/year of microplastics from car tires: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/14/car-tyre... Further, microplastics enter the ecosystem far easier than the bulky big plastic from fishing gear, so the tire microplastics should be far more concerning to people. It's really weird how cars get a pass for so much. Try to live a…

Ah! If the rest of us Americans would only adopt and adapt to an Amish lifestyle with no rubber tires, or tyres, synthetic or natural -we'd all live a more fulfilling, meaningful and verdant life. The one Grete wishes we'd all live.

Demographic trends indicate that future generations will do that anyway ;-)

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#260

Post by ornornor »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #181
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most dramatic changes an individual can make is switching to a plant based diet. Don’t support fishing, don’t support animal agriculture, and you’re way ahead. Not only in energy expenditure but resource utilization as well. It’s a stunning difference.

Doesn't shipping plant-based food around the planet cause massive climate change? PLant-based diets only make sense if you live somewhere where it's ecologically cheaper to eat plants than animals. This doesn't work, for most of the world.

There is a Kurzgesagt video on that exact point. Their analysis is that the emissions from shipping plants from further away to make your tofu is a drop in the bucket compared to the emissions you won’t be generating anymore by not consuming meat anymore. Meat which has to also have their food plants shipped around to them, on top of everything else.

See https://youtu.be/F1Hq8eVOMHs

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