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FCC proposes to increase minimum broadband speeds to 100 Mbps

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Re: FCC proposes to increase minimum broadband speeds to 100 Mbps

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great that it's fine for you. Is the fact that you enjoy waiting for downloads a reason to push the same suffering on others?

You've got strong opinions here, but... chill. I'm not enjoying the wait, I'm not pushing it on others and some wait time to play a game is not suffering. The question was what does the higher speed enable - of course it makes lots of things better, but waiting less is not enabling.

> The question was what does the higher speed enable - of course it makes lots of things better, but waiting less is not enabling.

It enables more productivity, if it doesn't take me x time to upload photography to a client, or push a bunch of Docker images to a remote, but x/2, x/3. That cycle time being reduced is useful.

Re: FCC proposes to increase minimum broadband speeds to 100 Mbps

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google wired my city up as a tech demo. Their microtrenching approach was atrocious and resulted in frequent service interruptions and significant traffic disruption as they patched the same spots multiple times. Eventually they decided the network was so damaged that they’d have to do a total rebuild, and that wasn’t interesting. They threw up their hands up and left, giving the city a few million to clean up the me…

Why do you have to trench? Have you ever seen Tokyo? Outside some very high density areas, all the fiber is on poles.

A grab bag of federal/state/local rules and widely varying ownership of those poles.

First, are you in a FCC regulated state, or one of the 21 that have passed their own pole regulations and have very different rules?

Have you negotiated a pole access agreement with the owner of the poles - which might be an electrical company, a municipality, or a Baby Bell? Some of those entities would love to see fiber internet in their community; others will be sure to make your life difficult because you are a competitor. And in some cases the ownership dictates the regulatory framework: a rural electric coop’s poles are handled differently from a municipalities, which are different from a telco.

Does your agreement/regulatory body allow you to do make ready work, or are you depending on the pole owner to do site surveys & line up engineering crews for the other utilities attached to the pole - likely telco, cable, maybe some existing fiber too? Are those poles also running electrical, in which case you’ve got even more headaches to deal with? Is the pole owner or anyone attached to the pole going to try to slow you down by claiming your changes are complex and need additional oversight?

Are you willing to wait, if you are required, for each other utility on the pole to send their engineers out to move their lines so you’re ready to place yours?

Alternatively: you negotiate an agreement with a city to trench in their right of way. One set of local regulators to work with. Looks appealing in comparison, no?

Re: FCC proposes to increase minimum broadband speeds to 100 Mbps

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would gladly pay $200 a month for that.

Serious question: what do you want that much bandwidth for? I could upgrade from 100Mb/s to 1Gb/s but I haven’t because honestly can’t think of a use case for myself.

I rarely need that much bandwidth, but it's convenient when available. Example: when I do an OS update. The lower latency and reliability of fiber is actually more important. DOCSIS / Cable networks are very flaky, subject to interference. There will be small periods of packet loss that literally come and go with the weather (or perhaps a neighbor messing around with their wiring.)

95% of consumers won't notice, but if I'm in the middle of uploading a docker image and my upstream bandwidth drops from 30 megabits to 3 megabits due to increased packet loss and TCP re-transmissions, I definitely will. I've had this happen before. Massive packet loss in the neighborhood. It took months to get it fixed.

Re: FCC proposes to increase minimum broadband speeds to 100 Mbps

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I am insanely embarrassed by the third world telecom infrastructure many Americans have to live with. 100Mbps symmetrical is just on the edge of what telcos can jam into dsl over their existing install base. The goal of the telco is to keep the FCC speed goal at copper limits for as long as possible to avoid paying the fiber they were paid to build in the 90’s. Om Malik wrote a fantastic book entitled: “Broadba…

I live in Kazakhstan and am paying just a little over $10 a month for a 500 Mbit/s symmetrical FTTH link (no caps either). It's even faster and cheaper in Russia (at least it has been until now, I don't know how long it's going to be true since they're sanctioned to the moon). Both countries pretty much have (their own) monopolistic internet providers, and yet. Why do Americans tolerate this bullshit?

When comparing local production prices between different countries it is important to keep local wages in mind. The ISP employees in Kazakhstan are not getting paid US salaries.

To do some quick math, let's take the median monthly salaries of both Kazakhstan and USA, 364,000 KZT ($755) and 3,500 USD per month respectively.

That means that the $10/month 500Mbps symmetrical fiber is about 1.32% of median monthly wage in Kazakhstan. For the US, 1.32% of 3,500 USD is about $46/month.

Looking at the AT&T website, they offer 500Mbps symmetrical fiber for $65/month + taxes. So yes, the US internet is more expensive by about 50%.

However one should still ask - well, maybe AT&T provides better service? I don't know whether AT&T is a better provider than your Kazakhstan ISP, but some points to consider are:

- Can you have a connection uptime of 6 months without interruptions and it's just business as usual and not an achievement? (In Estonia I have router & connection uptime measured in years. When I lived in the US, my Xfinity connection dropped for a few minutes every week.)

- Does the ISP have excellent global peering? Poor peering can result in much higher latencies to international destinations, and also much lower bandwidth. (In Estonia I know all the budget ISPs buy (as opposed to build) their international traffic and oversell it, which means connections across oceans are at quarter of the advertised speeds at peak hours.)

- Is the last mile cabling cost eaten by the ISP, or will they demand you to pay for its building?

Re: FCC proposes to increase minimum broadband speeds to 100 Mbps

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google wired my city up as a tech demo. Their microtrenching approach was atrocious and resulted in frequent service interruptions and significant traffic disruption as they patched the same spots multiple times. Eventually they decided the network was so damaged that they’d have to do a total rebuild, and that wasn’t interesting. They threw up their hands up and left, giving the city a few million to clean up the me…

It worked in SLC. Maybe they dug deeper trenches?

3x deeper - Louisville got 2” trenches. This went as well as you’d expect.

Re: FCC proposes to increase minimum broadband speeds to 100 Mbps

#256
post #235
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got 25/25Gbps here in Switzerland. I pay ~$65/month.

Can you please elaborate on your experience with it? Previously, on HN I remember seeing this post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31134534

Honestly it's mostly a novelty for me, I did it for bragging rights and out of curiosity.

1Gbps to 10Gbps has some tangible benefits like downloading large games in a fraction of the time, or doing super fast backups.

However when you have 25Gbps, you have a pipe twice as large as is common in standard hardware. You usually see yourself limited by 10Gbps peering links or by endpoints with only 10Gbps NICs.

And of course 25Gbps is faster than most conventional storage, you need very high-end NVMe or RAID to keep up.

If I'd have had to pay a bit extra every month, I probably wouldn't have done it. But since it was just the price of the hardware plus installation, I thought it was worth trying.

Re: FCC proposes to increase minimum broadband speeds to 100 Mbps

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not just Comcast but everything of its ilk, and by that I mean Charter (Spectrum/former Time Warner Cable), RCN/Grande/Astound and similar giant size coax based DOCSIS3 operators. In Canada, Shaw and Rogers. They are absolutely determined to squeeze every last dollar of ROI out of that existing coax cable plant by doing asymmetric RF channels for downstream/upstream. And not overbuilding themselves wit…

I always thought the upstream speed was an artificial limitation so they could upsell "business internet" to people who wanted to host servers - and that they doubled down by reassigning your IP periodically if they saw a lot of incoming connections on layer 4. I did try hosting a server on my comcast cable internet for a while and the IP which I had for seven years prior did start changing every day - sometimes more…

I have cable "business internet" and I get more upstream bandwidth for a similar plan, compared to a regular residential subscriber (30 megabits vs 15 or something.) However, it all shares the same infrastructure. I still only have 4 upstream channels. Total DOCSIS upstream bandwidth is limited to about 100 to 120 megabits for the entire node (neighborhood.) If you have a couple of bandwidth hogs near by, business or residential, it's going to suck!

Re: FCC proposes to increase minimum broadband speeds to 100 Mbps

#258
post #242

Higher minimum upload speeds will be more impactful than cranking download speed even higher. 100/100 is way, way better than 500/20. Upload speed is what enriches the two-way internet - servers, content uploads, high quality videoconferencing, cloud backups. Prioritising download speed is keeping us in the broadcast era.

For tech nerds like us, definitely. The average consumer doesn't need more upstream. A long as Netflix and Youtube work, it's fine!

Re: FCC proposes to increase minimum broadband speeds to 100 Mbps

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn you've got 2 orders of magnitude on me with my bare-bones Comcast plan! What's this run you per month?

Los Altos Hills is one of the wealthiest zip codes in the country, filled with tech millionaires and billionaires.. whatever the price may be, it’s heavily subsidized by extremely rich people who became wealthy due to tech companies wanting it in the first place. On Zillow, the cheapest house there is $4M and will likely be purchased to be torn down, the most expensive property is $40M and looks like a boutique hotel…

When I moved in to my house the only available option was AT&T DSL at 18/1 mbps. Comcast quoted $210k to run cable despite everyone else on my street already having a connection. It took me a year, but I organized with a bunch of my neighbors on the two streets behind my house and we trenched to get ourselves connected.

Being in a wealthy area is no guarantee of service. I currently pay $155/mo. It's symmetric 10 gbps. My router isn't grunty enough to deliver that.

Re: FCC proposes to increase minimum broadband speeds to 100 Mbps

#260

The amount of bandwidth you need depends on the number of people. 50Mb or 25Mb is probably fine for 1 person. As long as it can do 4k, and zoom calls, it's fine for most people. 100Mb might not be enough for six people, who might need to download, zoom, game, and stream all at once.

what's the obsession with 4k? 1080p abd 1440p are way more common.

It's obsession with technological advancement. There was a time when people were resistant to even 720p, saying that 480p is more than enough and they can't even see the difference.
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