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Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

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Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#251

Post by kieselguhr_kid »

bjornsing wrote: post #86
kieselguhr_kid wrote: post #81

Good for them! It'd be nice to see a software engineering guild emerge in the coming years. Think about the benefits we could accrue; I for one would strongly prefer a real pension to a 401K.

Oh yea? You can have mine, if you give me your 401k. (It’s like $20k per year, and you’ll pay taxes on that when the day comes. You may have to move to Sweden to survive on it.)

I suspect you're conflating your state pension everyone gets with a job-based pension that pays a percentage of your salary. And even if not, I know plenty of people, even teachers and other low-paid workers, whose pensions are much better than that.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#252

Post by busterarm »

andrepd wrote: post #227
busterarm wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in my younger years, I worked a lot of unskilled-labor type jobs. The starkest difference that I recognize between people in those jobs and people in my career is that in the former people have a hard time showing up to work on-time or at all and in the latter everyone is pretty tuned in and works hard. It only hit me late in life that success in life really can be just as simple as showing up. I guess what I wo…

Yes grampa, the disadvantaged kid who never got a chance to learn a "skilled job" should just pull himself by the bootstraps, show up, give the manager a firm handshake. Yawn.

I worked shitty jobs into my 30s before I landed on my career. Suck it up.

Also you're missing the point. I didn't say anything about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. You DON'T have to work hard. I said just show up. Every day. On time. That's literally the one thing I've seen in life that differentiates people who are successful in life from those who aren't.

And I know bank security guards who show up every day and live fulfilled happy successful lives. What I was saying was that commonly you'll find in unskilled labor jobs are people who don't show up every day. Not all of them but a large number. They won't do the minimum to succeed in life. They need the coddling.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#253

Post by coryfklein »

Xeoncross wrote: post #110

I don't understand unions for tech workers. We're not living in shacks rented to us by the company and can't afford a bus ticket to a new city or school to start a new life. We're making six figures here. Want more pay? Sit on your butt and do leetcode or practice interviews and network with other rich programmers. Move to a tropical island and work remote. Heck, you don't even need to go to college and just about an…

The skills tech workers contribute are undervalued; I'd make the case that we tech workers are underpaid given the contributions we make to the tech companies we work at.

Do you feel like you already make a lot of money, and you don't need more? If so, there are two actions you could take. You tell me which results in greater good in the world:

1. Don't push or struggle for better pay. Be happy with what you have, and let upper management and stockholder dividends soak up the extra. I'm sure they'll spend it making the world a better place.

2. Organize, push, and struggle to improve your pay. Since you're already happy with the pay level you get, donate all surplus to the charity of your choice. Put your niece through college. Save some of it, then retire earlier and spend more time with your family.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#254

Post by busterarm »

ceejayoz wrote: post #238
charcircuit wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an appeal to tradition. If harassing gay people was a core part of American culture should we continue to do it? Beating up and killing people over one's political beliefs is wrong.

"It was wrong to beat up gay people" and "it was wrong to beat up the Nazis" are... not quite comparable, I'd argue.

Except that only depends on where your point of view lies. If you were a Nazi you would think it okay to beat up the pink triangle people.

It's also a diversion from the actual argument about inciting violence against _anyone_ being both wrong AND illegal.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#255

Post by syspec »

chickenpotpie wrote: post #77
bdcravens wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not much money at all.

Well theyre a public benefit corporation so it shouldn't be big right? Profit is supposed to be a nice side effect of what they're doing, not their main goal. If they were raking in the dough I would be asking how much they really cared about helping people.

Well they'll need to grow at least 3% per year since everyone is going to be guaranteed a COL raise every year even on bad years.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#256

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

busterarm wrote: post #190
toomuchtodo wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you advocate for, not organizing, is what got us to the indentured servitude and slavery current state (US centric of course). Those who can’t recognize that are beyond hope (as they ignore the economic data clearly demonstrating the benefits), and to cater to them or entertain their desire to maintain the status quo helps no one but themselves. Edit: This forum has some sort of empathy deficiency in aggregate.

Quoted post unavailable.

You can work in tech and your work could be accurately described as indentured servitude. Tech if anything has a disproportionate amount of one specific kind: immigrants on employer specific visas.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#257

Post by andrepd »

busterarm wrote: post #252
andrepd wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes grampa, the disadvantaged kid who never got a chance to learn a "skilled job" should just pull himself by the bootstraps, show up, give the manager a firm handshake. Yawn.

I worked shitty jobs into my 30s before I landed on my career. Suck it up. Also you're missing the point. I didn't say anything about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. You DON'T have to work hard. I said just show up. Every day. On time. That's literally the one thing I've seen in life that differentiates people who are successful in life from those who aren't. And I know bank security guards who show up every…

I'm sorry, but your impression is wrong. The biggest correlate with income is not your punctuality, not hours worked, not productivity. It is this: your parents' income. This directly contradicts the (popular) view that we live in a meritocracy where all you have to do to succeed is work hard and be smart and apply yourself.

> What I was saying was that commonly you'll find in unskilled labor jobs are people who don't show up every day.

Mind sharing the study of workplace absenteeism that you're basing that opinion on?

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#258

Post by busterarm »

kieselguhr_kid wrote: post #251
bjornsing wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yea? You can have mine, if you give me your 401k. (It’s like $20k per year, and you’ll pay taxes on that when the day comes. You may have to move to Sweden to survive on it.)

I suspect you're conflating your state pension everyone gets with a job-based pension that pays a percentage of your salary. And even if not, I know plenty of people, even teachers and other low-paid workers, whose pensions are much better than that.

Even though we're already 3 decades into blatantly clear evidence that the economics of pensions destroy both company and municipality alike (especially in high-paying, high-tax US markets where pensioners draw their pension but relocate to low-tax/no-tax states to live their life and spend it), we're facing real declining birth rates on the horizon which are making that even more true. The State of New Jersey, despite proximity to NYC and all of the income that brings has been financially on the brink of collapse due to pensions since the 70s.

It would be wise of you to listen to the Swedes and Norwegians when they complain. They have some of the most funded and legally-guaranteed pensions in the world while economically times are becoming tougher and tougher for their citizens.

Especially for the Norwegians it's looking like pensions can't even cover basic living expenses Norwegians face _THIS YEAR_ and that's on the back of fantastic oil wealth.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#259

Post by adam_arthur »

andrepd wrote: post #233
adam_arthur wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple sets prices based on what they think will maximize their profitability. If iPhone cost $1M dollars, there are still people who would buy it. Demand is a curve, not a fixed value.

I'm not sure what you're saying, but GP was arguing that an increase in wages for manufacturing iPhone would eat at apples profit margins, not add to the products final price.

Yes, and if margins decline or go negative, then price must be raised

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#260

Post by slg »

gorwell wrote: post #250
slg wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>management banning a project that was raising money to support violence against conservatives (the actual physical kind, not words) What? The article you linked says this is about a comic book about punching Nazis. How is this "not words" ? We are seriously getting angry at comic books about punching Nazis? Captain America comics have been doing that for 80 years. Is there more to the story that I am missing or are…

Here's what the book says, "Sometimes they're called Nazis. Other times, they're the far-right or alt-right. White Nationalists. No matter the name, hateful groups are spewing vile, racist, anti-immigrant, anti-POC, anti-LGBTQ+, anti-anything-but-white-Christian-views ideologies. SCREW THAT. ALWAYS PUNCH NAZIS".

What is your objection to that passage? Most Nazis today do not call themselves "Nazis" because almost everyone agrees the Nazis were the bad guys. That is all that passage is saying. Saying sometimes Nazis go by "the far-right" is not the saying all far-right people are Nazis. You are the one reading "hateful groups are spewing vile, racist, anti-immigrant, anti-POC, anti-LGBTQ+, anti-anything-but-white-Christian-views ideologies" and immediately equating that to all conservatives.
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