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I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

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Re: I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

#251
Ultimately, interviews are about a process of elimination. There are M applicants and N spots open. If M>N (which is most cases) we need some way to go from M candidates to N job offers.

How do you run this selection process? One way to do this is to ask the applicants who are all the candidates who can do the job. But this is a lousy way. Some people might simply say they are qualified even though they are not.

Recruiters obviously need some way to filter out the candidates who cannot do the job. But let's say that even after doing that, the number of qualified candidates are still greater than N. What do you do now? Obviously, the company should hire those individuals who, when hired, maximizes the value to the firm over the tenure of the candidate at the company.

Obviously, the company cannot simply ask the candidates who are the most valuable, because each person might respond that it is they themselves.

So, the company is ultimately looking for certain signals. These signals, if present, indicate that the candidate, when hired, will bring maximum value to the company over their tenure.

However, once the candidates understand that these are the signals that a company is looking for, they can fake it[1]. For example, in this case, the candidate figured out that the company asks toy problems in the interview and memorized the answer, albeit in this case, accidentally. However, nothing is stopping a candidate from doing this deliberately. In this case, the author is reliably able to emit this "toy problem solving skill" signal even though he may not have been able to solve the problem in the time allotted during the interview. However, the company was unable to detect this possibly false signal and therefore, he was hired. In this case, it does not look like a bad outcome for most people involved

This problem of minimizing false positives would be an interesting problem to solve. A company that solves this problem well will probably enjoy a huge competitive advantage in the market.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law

Re: I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

#252

IMHO, this was not cheating. This is a phenomenon called success. If you are fortunate (?) to be around in the entrepreneurial world long enough, you will realize that intelligence, hard work, good time management etc are not adequate. They just qualify as deserving. There are serendipities that separate those who succeed from everybody else who was deserving. Survivor bias [1]. Calling Eli was your serendipity. The…

"If you are fortunate (?) to be around in the entrepreneurial world long enough, you will realize that intelligence, hard work, good time management etc are not adequate." Not just as an entrepreneur. I have found that these traits don't guarantee a reward for ICs, or anyone really. I used to work hard. Now I just work hard enough. Pays the same either way.

>Now I just work hard enough.

My review from management actually got much better once I stopped knocking myself out working too hard and instead worked just enough.

That was a pivotal moment for me. That and also learning how to manage your manager.

Re: I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

#253
post #224
post #134

One time a company I interviewed with asked me obscure algorithm questions about playing card shuffling. As a former professional magician I knew the optimal answers instantly and could jot them down straight away. They had allocated an hour for answers I wrote in a few minutes. I could have told them I had a massively unfair advantage, but I did not bother. They were visibly impressed and told me I was moving on to…

I answered one of those mind benders nearly immediately in an interview. I figured out the trick as they were telling it basically. They asked me if I had heard it before. I hadn't. A final interview with the CEO and he asked if I had heard it before and I said I hadn't. I later realized based on how they were asking if I had heard it before, they thought I was lying. The question: You get on a ski lift going up. It'…

I assume telling you a speed and not telling you how many chairs there are is intentional?

Re: I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

#254
post #224
post #134

One time a company I interviewed with asked me obscure algorithm questions about playing card shuffling. As a former professional magician I knew the optimal answers instantly and could jot them down straight away. They had allocated an hour for answers I wrote in a few minutes. I could have told them I had a massively unfair advantage, but I did not bother. They were visibly impressed and told me I was moving on to…

I answered one of those mind benders nearly immediately in an interview. I figured out the trick as they were telling it basically. They asked me if I had heard it before. I hadn't. A final interview with the CEO and he asked if I had heard it before and I said I hadn't. I later realized based on how they were asking if I had heard it before, they thought I was lying. The question: You get on a ski lift going up. It'…

Assuming an "ideal ski lift" isn't it just all of them?

Re: I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

#255

He cheated more on writing a clickbait title than actually "cheating" on the interview. This is the same thing as when a kid in class thought studying was a way to cheat.

Not only is it clickbait, the author is founder and CEO of a technical recruiting company. Clearly the article is written to generate leads for Facet. This is basically just astroturfing. The author should have opened with a conflict of interest statement at the very top.

Also, OP should have included (2019) in the title. It's kind of an old piece.

Re: I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

#256
A company came to our school before a job fair and the recruiter talked at our club about what she does during her process. She mentioned that she writes short notes on the back of resumes to sum up her first impressions. So the next day at the fair, I saw her and turned my resume over and wrote "I love this guy, let's definitely hire him" and walked up and handed it to her and smiled and talked for a minute. Walked away and as she turned the resume over to make her notes I heard her bust out laughing. I got the interview.

Re: I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

#257

IMHO, this was not cheating. This is a phenomenon called success. If you are fortunate (?) to be around in the entrepreneurial world long enough, you will realize that intelligence, hard work, good time management etc are not adequate. They just qualify as deserving. There are serendipities that separate those who succeed from everybody else who was deserving. Survivor bias [1]. Calling Eli was your serendipity. The…

"If you are fortunate (?) to be around in the entrepreneurial world long enough, you will realize that intelligence, hard work, good time management etc are not adequate." Not just as an entrepreneur. I have found that these traits don't guarantee a reward for ICs, or anyone really. I used to work hard. Now I just work hard enough. Pays the same either way.

I agree that this is the common experience for those of us that never experience overwhelming "serendipity" (i.e. luck) - meaning no disrespect (or lack of gratitude for being so incredibly fortunate) - but for those few that do get shot out of a canon, it would appear that hard work (focused hours on task) makes all the difference on becoming industry dominant (Musk, Jobs, etc). When you get a tiger by the tail, you need to stay focused and not fall asleep.

Re: I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

#258
post #134

One time a company I interviewed with asked me obscure algorithm questions about playing card shuffling. As a former professional magician I knew the optimal answers instantly and could jot them down straight away. They had allocated an hour for answers I wrote in a few minutes. I could have told them I had a massively unfair advantage, but I did not bother. They were visibly impressed and told me I was moving on to…

Can you elaborate on what made the question obscure? I'm asking because I used the question "print out the first 52 numbers in random order"in interviews before, and the answers seemed to give a good hint about understanding of basic CS concepts.

This question came up in a weekly "random topic" talk that we had at an MIT lab I was visiting at the time, many years ago. One of the lab members - who was a very impressive coder and researcher - had been asked this question at a google interview. I remember being pretty surprised that he wasn't familiar with the fisher-yates shuffle (and that this would be considered a good question to ask at google). His first answer to the problem was actually one of the "obvious" (and incorrect) answers one might give. But then he also walked us through the process he went through with the interviewer on deriving a correct algorithm, along with a mathematical justification of its correctness. I think regardless of whether one is familiar with the typical algorithms, being able to explain and justify them does show skills. (And fwiw, he did end up getting an offer and working at google).

Re: I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

#259
I had a similar lucky break when interviewing for my first real job at $FANG. They asked me a question which I happened to have done a research project on. So not only did I give the optimal algorithm I also was able to teach the interviewer some new aspects of the problem. I got the job very easily.

Conversely at my interview for $FANG2 I got unlucky and didn’t do as well. So I didn’t get that job.

Re: I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

#260
I recently had an interview with a startup that asked me the same exact question that I got from a faang interview the week prior. It was a problem I hadn't practiced/seen before the first interview, but I was able to figure it out just before we were out of time. In the second interview, I stopped him right away once I realized I had just seen it, explained the solution that I came to the week prior, and he went on to choose a much more difficult problem that I couldn't solve in the time requirement.

I regret nothing -- it was a better spend of time for both of us. Interviews are bullshit, but they're not such bullshit to me that I'm willing to sit there and pretend to have a eureka moment about a question that I already know. I had the opportunity to show my skills and he got to see me struggle through it, and that's what it's really about. By the time you get to a final round, they moreso want to know what it's like to work with you than they want to know what you know.

If you're ever in this situation, there's really no wrong answer. Play pretend and look like a rockstar, kudos, or be forthcoming and show some ambition -- also kudos. Job interviews are stressful and I would never fault someone for playing dumb. OP shouldn't feel like he needs to explain his sins. This is a systemic problem with leetcode style interviews, and it's not your job to correct for that as the candidate.

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