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We’re discontinuing the Stablegains service

blog.stablegains.com

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Re: We’re discontinuing the Stablegains service

#251

Post by downandout »

rspeele wrote: post #249
downandout wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run arb and loan liquidation bots, and have for over a year now. These are atomic transactions almost always using flash swaps/loans that exist only exist for the life of the transaction. I am only exposed to potential losses on transaction fees, but have never had a losing day while running production code. My yield on my investment (mostly infrastructure costs) is closer to 5,000%...per month. I will not lose my…

> My yield on my investment (mostly infrastructure costs) is closer to 5,000%...per month. As in, $100 in January becomes $500 in February, $2,500 in March, ... $976,562,500 in December? Edit: actually I read that wrong, that would only be 500%. 5,000% per month (money x 50) would turn the $100 into $9,765,625,000,000,000,000 by December. Unless by 5,000% yield you mean you get 50x your original investment on top of…

No, sadly that return is based on my infrastructure costs, which I can't keep increasing and get the same return. But yes, I'm doing better than 50X my monthly infrastructure costs with this, which are my only actual risk.

Re: We’re discontinuing the Stablegains service

#252

Post by [deleted] »

koheripbal wrote: post #151
jmyeet wrote: post #100

What's funny about this is that I can recall discussions here and elsewhere from only a few months ago questioning the "guaranteed" super-high returns. I forget who said this but someone awhile ago said in finance said that if someone is promising you consistent above-market returns it's either a scam or there is unknown or undisclosed risk. And the Crypto Andys were all like "you just don't understand DeFi!" to whic…

What most people don't understand about finance is that there are fundamental rules that you really cannot break without consequences. Anyone who has studied quantitative finance knows that it is a HARD science. I worked with a Nobel prize winner in economics, and the math dominated. There was no politics, no opinions, no ethics involved. It really is a science. Most social media characterize finance as some ethical…

[deleted]

Re: We’re discontinuing the Stablegains service

#253

Post by rspeele »

downandout wrote: post #251
rspeele wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My yield on my investment (mostly infrastructure costs) is closer to 5,000%...per month. As in, $100 in January becomes $500 in February, $2,500 in March, ... $976,562,500 in December? Edit: actually I read that wrong, that would only be 500%. 5,000% per month (money x 50) would turn the $100 into $9,765,625,000,000,000,000 by December. Unless by 5,000% yield you mean you get 50x your original investment on top of…

No, sadly that return is based on my infrastructure costs, which I can't keep increasing and get the same return. But yes, I'm doing better than 50X my monthly infrastructure costs with this, which are my only actual risk.

Ah, ok, so this is more like a thing where you drive around looking for loose change on the ground, and you find enough to exceed your fuel and maintenance expenses. But you can't scale it up by hiring more drivers, because there is only so much loose change to be found.

Surely you see how even a 10% safe return on investment like these DeFi schemes offer is a whole different thing, when it's a compounding return. There's no way to sustain it. All the arbitrage opportunities in the world can't deliver the funds required to make investors' money grow exponentially.

Re: We’re discontinuing the Stablegains service

#254

Post by gus_massa »

nrmitchi wrote: post #113
gus_massa wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it 15% monthly or 15% annual?

Well 15% monthly woud be ~535% annual and at that point you're well past "highly unlikely" and into "I'm printing money in my 20k sqft basement" territory.

We had a big Ponzi that exploded last month in Argentina (and extended to a few nearby countries). They promised a monthly interest from 7.5% to 20% (and IIRC they has even better offers for special "investors"). For example see https://www.ambito.com/informacion-general/generacion-zoe/le... autotranslation https://www-ambito-com.translate.goog/informacion-general/ge...

Re: We’re discontinuing the Stablegains service

#255

Post by codedokode »

After I read about this Terra ecosystem, it looks very suspicious: first, you buy UST tokens, investing real money. You are promised a yield up to 20% (suspicious point 1). Then, you deposit your UST so that other people can lend it. But the terms look weird to me (suspicious point 2): first, the loans are "overcollateralized", so, for example, you need to put down equivalent of $100 to get a loan of $70. Second, the interest rate on the loan is ridiculously high - in the range of 30%. Who would take such a loan?

They seemed to have a third kind of token, that you could get as a reward for taking a loan (or depositing UST). But I don't think that by juggling three related tokens around one can generate any value. The only source of money was from people buying any of these tokens.

The support page at Stablegains site says [1]:

> They [Digital finance protocols] are more efficient than traditional finance

I can't see how 30% interest rate overcollateralized loans are "more efficient" than traditional bank loans with rates below 10% per year.

[1] https://stablegains.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/4402680375...

Re: We’re discontinuing the Stablegains service

#256

Post by reducesuffering »

braingenious wrote: post #43
unicornmama wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey these days we're going default ponzi :)

Seriously! I know this may be an unpopular opinion on this site in particular, but after seeing this I would never even consider raising money from YC. I would not be comfortable having the fate of my business in any way tied to a group of people that are so fucking dumb that they invested in the money version of a perpetual motion machine. Seriously, this is the fucking stupidest thing I’ve seen in _YEARS_

No response from YC on their culpability in grifting regular joe's out of $42m. How many people with little savings got advertised, shilled to, and manipulated by social media to put most of their savings into this and will now be in dire straights? "Making the world a better place."

Re: We’re discontinuing the Stablegains service

#257

Post by djenendik »

mettamage wrote: post #209
monkey26 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will understanding the math make me rich? :)

Work at a HFT firm in Amsterdam. That type of finance knowledge will make you rich.

So you can guarantee 20% returns? We're back where started.

Re: We’re discontinuing the Stablegains service

#258

Post by codedokode »

codedokode wrote: post #255

After I read about this Terra ecosystem, it looks very suspicious: first, you buy UST tokens, investing real money. You are promised a yield up to 20% (suspicious point 1). Then, you deposit your UST so that other people can lend it. But the terms look weird to me (suspicious point 2): first, the loans are "overcollateralized", so, for example, you need to put down equivalent of $100 to get a loan of $70. Second, the…

By the way, here is an idea about new type of coin, that I would call "investcoin". Do you see any potential problems with it?

This would be a coin that is backed by stocks. When you buy my investcoin, you can choose any kind of stock from a preapproved list and I will buy them for your money. If you decide to cash out, I will sell stocks of my choice to repay you. The stocks are managed in a public account, so anyone can ensure that the amount of stocks matches the amount of coins. You are guaranteed a share of stocks proportional to amount of coins that you own.

Of course, hard work of thinking out a hypothetical cryptocurrency must be rewarded, so I will take a reasonable fee from every transaction involving buying or selling stocks.

To make things more interesting, we could manage those stocks by voting of coin holders.

Why this is much better than stablecoins:

- first, in contrast to existing stablecoins, anyone can easily check that I hold the amount of stocks matching the amount of coins

- second, unlike existing stablecoins, the value of my investcoin is going to grow as on average stock markets grow over time

- third, the money that you have invested is improving world economy instead of just burning electricity

- fourth, you can use this investcoin as a mean of payment

- fifth, there will be no promises of ridiculous yield. The stocks are meant to back the value of coin, not to be a source of a significant profit.

Looks like a perfect business plan, or am I missing something?

Re: We’re discontinuing the Stablegains service

#259

Post by codedokode »

chx wrote: post #62
gloryless wrote: post #30

It's pathetic that regulators haven't stopped this nonsense. These scams don't even last 6 months anymore, it's a joke

All crypto is a scam and it's so simple to see, it's astonishing anyone fell for this. Look. Imagine an otherwise empty room with a table and a few chairs. A couple people come in with some money in their pockets and cards. They play a few round of a card game, some lose, some win. When they leave, the room as it was before so it is crystal clear the sum of their money couldn't change. Some won, some lost but overall…

My imaginary investcoin [1] is not a scam though. It is backed by stocks and its value comes from the growth of stock market and from being usable as a decentralized mean of payment.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31463825

Re: We’re discontinuing the Stablegains service

#260

Post by anamax »

jdasdf wrote: post #134
nrmitchi wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> careful to not make any explicit claims of safety (eg. "your principal is protected", or "you won't lose money"). These are both explicit examples of explicit claims of safety that are still up on their documentation (at least as of 5 minutes ago) - "You will not lose your funds because all loans are 100% asset-backed." ( https://stablegains.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/4402680425... ) - "Regardless if crypto mark…

And now those are gone. These people need to be in jail. Deleting evidence isn't going to look good in front of the judge.

Until they are given notice of a judicial proceedings, they don't have an obligation to retain evidence. (There is an exception that doesn't appear to apply here.)
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