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HP Dev One Laptop with Pop_OS

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Re: HP Dev One Laptop with Pop_OS

#251

Post by WWLink »

p1necone wrote: post #69
tristor wrote: post #29

I want to like this, but I feel like 32GB of RAM is minimum if I were buying a new laptop. I’ve been heavily eyeing the Framework but I’d prefer AMD. This had AMD but is limited to 16GB of RAM… lots of unnecessary tradeoffs being made here.

Framework has recently announced availability of Intel 12th gen - still not AMD, but it's a fairly huge jump in performance from 11th gen. And of course you can just order a replacement mainboard for your already purchased Framework laptop, which is awesome.

Yea, I admit, Framework makes an extremely compelling selling point here. If I buy a Framework laptop I can buy my own replacement parts and not have to ever deal with warranty service ever again. I can buy Rev 1 and then a few years later possibly buy a Rev 5 motherboard.. and maybe a Rev 5 lower shell to accommodate it or some other silly stuff.

It kinda reminds me of how some Thinkpad addicts went to crazy lengths to upgrade their 10 year old thinkpads with modern parts lol. Except this time it's official and supported.

That's awesome!

I think this HP is kinda tacky. I don't need a trackpoint and I don't want a keyboard offset to the side like that.

Re: HP Dev One Laptop with Pop_OS

#252

Post by schmorptron »

jasoneckert wrote: post #44

I'm not going to critique this laptop as others have done here. Just over $1K for a laptop with an 8 core Ryzen, 16GB DDR4 and a 1TB SSD isn't outrageous. The main takeaways I get from this are that HP is now getting on the Linux developer bandwagon, and that they chose Pop!_OS as their distro due to the success and reputation of System76. And I think these are both good things, and a sign that we'll see more of the…

Same here, this looks pretty good,especially if the ryzen 8-core is 6th gen.

Developers are always going to have very specific wants for laptops and classify anything else as a dealbreaker, which makes sense:

If you're used to one thing that fits your work flow and you use it every day, why would you not stick with the thing that works well for you?

Re: HP Dev One Laptop with Pop_OS

#253

Post by lnxg33k1 »

jseliger wrote: post #206
2143 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. It's a good thing that more OEMs are supporting Linux out of the box.

It's surprising to me that OEMs don't try to make every machine they sell Linux-ready and compatible, at the very least: OEMs have tied themselves to Microsoft by neglecting Linux, and in the process been party to problems like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28639952 . If OEMs thought ahead, they could have made these changes 10 or 15 years ago, and perhaps have broken through the cost of Microsoft licenses. In…

I to be honest have started thinking that there is a mutual interest for OEMs and Microsoft to support each other, like how many new laptops are going to be sold thanks to the windows 11 requirements?

Meanwhile you get a Linux distro on a laptop from 20 years ago and either lxde or xfce or whatever and it runs almost like new

OEMs then save the cost of license but open a Pandora box of voiding absolescence

Re: HP Dev One Laptop with Pop_OS

#254

Post by fulafel »

suprjami wrote: post #140
pzlarsson wrote: post #40

It has a trackpoint with 2 buttons which tells us they did not put any serious effort into this input device. Would you use a 2 button mouse without scroll-wheel or a touchpad without 2-fingers scrolling? I suspect this low effort goes for the whole product which is a budget laptop with marketing directed at decision makers instead of users.

Confusing comment. Did you miss the massive touchpad beneath the keyboard? Surely it has two-finger scrolling. I would expect three-finger middle click emulation (which kinda sucks I agree).

The middle button (or "mouse button 2") is a legit pointer interface function that many apps use. Besides scrolling, it pastes, opens links in new tabs, and many application specific uses in eg Blender.

(But there's always been a middle button challenged user population subset around so apps have alternative ways of doing these, a bit like terminal apps can be used without a working meta)

Re: HP Dev One Laptop with Pop_OS

#255

Post by reirob »

prescriptivist wrote: post #13

Looking at the keyboard layout makes me wonder. How many devs here actually use the right shift key and/or the right modifier keys? I've been programming for 20 years (15 or so using emacs) and I exclusively use the left shift and left modifiers. I probably have never used the (physically) right shift/modifier keys on the keyboard I'm currently typing on that I've had for 2 years. I loathe the four left modifier key…

I do it all the time - I don't know another way if you want to touch type. It creates a symmetry - depending if the letter key with which you need to combine is on the left or the right hand, I will use the opposite hand to press the Shift or Ctrl keys. And the AltGr is an absolute must for me as I need to write accents for several western European languages and the English International with AltGr Dead keys is the best solution I found so far (and I do not understand why it is not shipped with Windows).

Re: HP Dev One Laptop with Pop_OS

#256

Post by usr1106 »

darthrupert wrote: post #248
loosescrews wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux seems to have much worse memory management for desktop usage than other popular desktop operating systems. I have found that I really need 64GB of RAM to make Chrome run well on Linux, but I can get a similar user experience with as little as 16GB of RAM on other desktop operating systems. Firefox does much better, but Chrome seems to be the standard these days, and a computer that doesn't run Chrome well is pr…

Lol, that’s just silly. I could probably run Linux desktop (sway) on a 1GB RAM machine.

1 GB would require some serious optimization if you want to do some work. But I have a 2 GB machine running Xubuntu without modifications and it is quite usable for some development work (It was bought as a school laptop years ago. You could not use it in school anymore because their stuff requires 4 GB nowadays, but I sometimes still use it just for fun.) I don't think switching from Xfce to sway saves you a whole GB.

Of course there were numerous ways to make a 2 GB machine starve if you wanted to or just don't think what is feasible or not and run several crazy Electron apps or worse. Some lightweight containers are not a problem, I have run those.

Re: HP Dev One Laptop with Pop_OS

#257

Post by usr1106 »

midislack wrote: post #224
filmgirlcw wrote: post #99

This isn’t a laptop I would personally buy for many of the reasons others have put in this thread, but it’s incredible to see such a focused SKU from HP here. This will likely be a small volume product and it is almost certainly based on something else in the HP portfolio (advantage of being such a huge OEM), but it’s nice to see a developer marketed laptop in this way. And running a distro other than straight Ubuntu…

Are we sure it’s just one SKU?

Hopefully not. Because then it were not available internationally.

Re: HP Dev One Laptop with Pop_OS

#258

Post by usr1106 »

mindcrime wrote: post #212
tristor wrote: post #29

I want to like this, but I feel like 32GB of RAM is minimum if I were buying a new laptop. I’ve been heavily eyeing the Framework but I’d prefer AMD. This had AMD but is limited to 16GB of RAM… lots of unnecessary tradeoffs being made here.

I bought a new System 76 machine about this time last year, and splurged (by my standards) on 64GB of RAM. BEST. DECISION. EVAAAR. as far as I'm concerned. For probably the first time in my life, I feel like I can do basically whatever I want and not have to worry about RAM. Have 8 Firefox windows with 200 tabs open, 3 or 4 Eclipse instances, and a few server apps running, and want to launch a bunch of VM's with Vagr…

Who would be able to productively use 200 open browser tabs? Seems like a strange argument to waste even more resources on a more and more ruined planet.

Re: HP Dev One Laptop with Pop_OS

#259

Post by usr1106 »

onli wrote: post #239
83457 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are using as much memory as they can because it is available. Chrome is notorious for this. That is not a valid gauge for how much memory is necessary or even useful.

How about the system freezing? Vscode compiling a flutter project with an Android Emulator open. Firefox with MS Teams, Jura etc, no tab hoarding. Sometimes chrome is open as well. Upgraded to 32gb and the freezes are gone. 16gb is not enough anymore for even such a modest workload.

Electron is never modest. It's an incredible resource hog. Memory has become too cheap, people should think instead of just waste resources. The next generations will need to use an abacus again if this stupidity goes on.

Re: HP Dev One Laptop with Pop_OS

#260

Post by thrwawy283 »

fatboy93 wrote: post #204
jasoneckert wrote: post #44

I'm not going to critique this laptop as others have done here. Just over $1K for a laptop with an 8 core Ryzen, 16GB DDR4 and a 1TB SSD isn't outrageous. The main takeaways I get from this are that HP is now getting on the Linux developer bandwagon, and that they chose Pop!_OS as their distro due to the success and reputation of System76. And I think these are both good things, and a sign that we'll see more of the…

Yeah, I didn't get the critique either. People are like we listen to music, have a few docker instances running and we use VScode, we need 32 gb Ram or more. Why do you need a text editor/ide which consumes so much ram? Is this the reason that apps have gotten more bloated and slow on older devices? Idk, I'm not a programmer. I think the price is fair enough, and if the ram isn't soldered (one would be and the other…

I try to humble myself there. While 32GB seems ridiculous for 2005, I've absolutely enjoyed having 64GB in 2022. Yes, apps have gotten more bloated. Yes there are many wasteful framework-built heavy apps. In many cases they are doing much more than in 2005.

I wonder if anyone is tracking the average amount of memory somewhere from 1980-forward. I'd take that value * 2 for a developer.

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