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The impact of digital media on children’s intelligence

nature.com

251–259 of 259 posts

Re: The impact of digital media on children’s intelligence

#251
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not wrong in terms of how much time people can spend on something that doesn't take much thought (it can be a comfort, even), but your diagnosis of the problem is way off. There's nothing about modern video games that can receive the blame for this, even if I hate what gacha and friends have done to the place on the design perspective. (Fortunately there's still plenty of market that's not design I dislike. An…

I'm actually training to teach elementary school, so yes you could say I've spent some time around children! I would absolutely expect a child to play OoT well past beating Ganon for the first time, but there is still a limit to how much you can do. Compare that to something like Destiny, which is basically designed to be a bottomless pit you could grind forever! > So the kid could do that, even talk to friends playi…

I think it's more about comfort in familiarity than discovering something new (Frozen isn't that deep), but whatever the case, as external media there's always some intrinsic "I want this for reasons I think are my own" motivation combined with extrinsic "I want this because for good or ill, by various carrots and sticks, others made it intending that I should want it" motivation. Would it be so bad if Frozen had a built-in times-watched counter or an XP bar? Nonsensical for the latter and tasteless, but grant that it could bring people in for rewatches more than it pushed them away, it still surely wouldn't rob people of all their will, ultimately they'd still rewatch for some other intrinsic reasons along with the extrinsic XP bar and other extrinsic things like the intentionally designed attractive (for many) art aesthetic. How much of each motivation will vary; I think people are probably biased to imagine the extrinsics are usually 'nice bonuses on top'.

Destiny doesn't really help your case, I think. The most objectionable thing they do (as I hear it, I skipped it), at least relative to things like it (Warframe), is exploit fear-of-missing-out psychology; they remove previously released content. (Like adding an ad to a site to exploit/monetize viewers, this is not a neutral design choice, and has driven people away from the game entirely rather than what seems to be the default assumed effect of any psychology exploit (except 'make things beautiful'?) of sucking out their will and owning them.) But over time they've not just cut stuff, but added new content. So there are eventually fresh(er) experiences even if you hit max level/acquired everything/etc. like an MMO. Until they dry out anyway, and the problem solves itself, because ultimately an infinitely increasing XP bar just isn't enough to keep most people interested.

They did make an actual title cut to the sequel for Destiny 2 and that's where further new content went -- has it since had enough content added that another timeline could have legitimately packaged it as Destiny 3?

Besides all that, it's legitimately a game, quite more than a glorified slot, it's a full simulation, and has a satisfying core gameplay loop -- the same one refined through the earlier Halo games.

Similarly, though not as core, it's also just satisfying to have Link roll around everywhere. Adding lootboxes to OoT would be beyond tasteless and obscene, but the product would still be quite a bit better than an actual glorified slot, because there's enough game design there alongside, there's something beyond just plain 'give money maybe win prize'. Japanese crane games / ufo catchers are more in line with glorified slots than a game with typical distasteful 'games-as-service' monetization strategies.

That ties in with your earlier deleted edit I still thought worth addressing. I see the concern on glorified slots, but I don't think it's really worth worrying about. In video games, even some hypothetical one with master manipulator levels of thought to make it indefinitely addicting, it's ultimately not chemical injection in basis to form a true dependency on the average human, and so the next thing comes out sooner or later and voila, newness, change. Is the 'Destiny is a dead game' meme close to the truth? It certainly seems a lot less popular than several battle royales, and those too will decline.

Casinos are in comparison much more niche, have little competition and innovation (look at their dull slots with no redeeming game design to them at all), have physical chemical associations (booze and smokes minimum) driving a bunch of it (their psychological playbook is laughably weak in comparison to something like Genshin Impact), and of course must be enabled by real money. The last factor is the simplest barrier to keep kids from getting addicted to casino-style crap, free-to-play dominates. Now maybe it's sad if trends like lootboxes or gachas or battle passes continue (or perhaps in your mind also trends of games designed with elements to never end), but it's far from concerning, especially when games lacking such crap continue to be successful...

Re: The impact of digital media on children’s intelligence

#252
post #248
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what Johnson thinks about the decline of reading going on in parallel to the rise of TV viewership? It's true that old shows or movies might have had simpler and more tidy plots (not all of them of course), but I think even the most complicated modern shows aren't nearly so complicated as a basic novel. Case in point, anything adapted from print to tv or film has a lot of plot left out because there simply i…

Copying a comment from below - it’s been a while since I read the book, but I think Johnson had hypothesized that more modern reading experiences (e.g. browsing the Internet) might require more context switching and mental processing than traditional written formats like a newspaper. Granted, he wrote the book in 2005, but I do think memes and other internet-native forms of content are challenging in new and differen…

I wonder if the additional processing affects fatigue at all?

Re: The impact of digital media on children’s intelligence

#253
post #101
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daughter is transitioning from children's games to pre-teen games, and I can't find a single acceptable game on the tablet. Until now I hadn't realized how sensible Apple's rules around children's games had been, notably: no internet connection required, and no ads.

Regardless of ads or Internet connectivity requirements, I can find hardly any acceptable games on phones/tablets, in mobile app stores. If you want to play games on the go, I suggest a proper videogame console, like a 3DS.

I agree, and thanks for the advice. However, as another commenter pointed out, I believe the lack of good games in mobile app stores is a direct consequence of the economic model, driven by ads and internet connectivity.

Re: The impact of digital media on children’s intelligence

#254
post #216
post #13

The fact that they "controlled" for genetics using polygenic scores already is a strong sign of low quality research. Polygenic scores are powerful, but they contain very large amounts of noise compared to the true genetic effects. Controlling for genetics using them is like controlling for income by asking whether the respondents own a Porsche. Also, be aware that Scientific Reports is, if not quite a predatory jour…

If you are going to critique the methodology please provide a reference where this is not a robust method. You may be right but how can I tell without some references? The scholar.google search for "controlling for genetics using polygenetic scores" brings up many recent papers about this methodology and the arguments made in these seem stronger to me than this one comment. IMO on the internet when people can easily…

I don't speak from authority, but I do speak from experience as an academic. Scientific Reports is run by Springer, who are more competent than Elsevier but just as predatory. Their acceptance rate is 48%, and in 2021, they published 23000 articles. (You can check this here: https://www.nature.com/srep/research-articles?year=2021.) At a publication fee of almost $2000 (Wikipedia), this is a money-making machine, as skewered by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F9gzQz1Pms. I think it's obvious what the incentives are here.

The reason the method is not robust is that the typical polygenic score explains only 10% or less of the variance of its target phenotype. That leaves 90% of the variance unaccounted for by the control, which means your error term will be correlated with your focal dependent variable, violating the requirements for regression to give an unbiased estimate. I don't think these claims are controversial. We know polygenic scores are noisy. We know what happens when your control variables are noisy.

The fact that lots of people do it doesn't, sadly, make it work. Lots of social psychologists run trials with an N of 35 (though they're addressing this critique, to their credit). Lots of historians fail to specify their hypotheses and to search for disconfirming data. Economists spent the 80s and 90s running cross-country regressions, before realizing that they had, in aggregate, more independent variables than cases. And so on.

Re: The impact of digital media on children’s intelligence

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't even go to the bathroom in peace. How do you guys manage time for yourself??

I mostly don't. I get a few hours after they're in bed and before I go to bed in which to cram cleanup, catching up with my wife, and other bits of essential life maintenance. It does get easier as they age. Our youngest is three, so I have a while before the "hanging off my legs" phase is done, but I can remember the era of newborns, when I could be interrupted at any moment, and I couldn't count on an entire hour t…

I appreciate the perspective. I kind of agree with you however my ideas slightly changed over the last year. It is hard to keep spending as much time as possible with kids when you are also trying to make a living and prepare for a better future for them. I think a balanced approach is better for your mental health and also for their future.

Re: The impact of digital media on children’s intelligence

#256

I don't think the problem is that polygenic scores are noisy. (You can choose to make them less noisy by restricting to significant SNPs, for example.) And noise doesn't require directional bias. But to me there are 2 problems: (A) Polygenic scores for behavioral traits may be estimated in GWAS where the null assumptions (e.g., that mating is not conditioned on the trait being estimated) may not be valid[1]. That is…

> You can choose to make them less noisy by restricting to significant SNPs, for example.

That makes them more noisy, not less. PGS predictive power for EDU/IQ is always maximized at use of all SNPs. Restricting to the arbitrary subset of genome-wide statistically-significant SNPs in Lee would drive it from the 7% or so they have to Also, neither of your two problems are the problem here, as the biases there would not be expected to drive a correlation between video game playing & IQ (what sort of within-ethnic interaction would you need for that and why is it plausible?), and would mostly serve to simply not control for intelligence (and quantitatively, because the PGS here is a small fraction of the variance, even gross biases which somehow did manage to drive correlations between those two variables, would still be unable to meaningfully affect the estimates).

Re: The impact of digital media on children’s intelligence

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some games are incredibly addictive though. Roblox for example can completely take over a kid’s mind.

Yeah surprised no one else here mentioned Roblox, they seem to be flying under a lot of people's radar but they're a completely terrible company.

It’s the only thing I have permanently banned and blocked inside and (as well as I can) outside my home.

Re: The impact of digital media on children’s intelligence

#258
post #60
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the upside, but there are many other high reputation peer-reviewed open journals with close to zero payment. Is the domain really worth the cost? It is kinda messed up, when you adjust the price based on the available money of institutional affiliations or donors. It is just more profits for journal and nothing for authors, while forcing authors to pay.

> there are many other high reputation peer-reviewed open journals with close to zero payment Which are those? The journals that I expect to still be up are the ones that require actual payment for publishing.

For example accepted papers in HICSS are stored publicly without extra cost.

> Starting with HICSS-50, all HICSS publication will be archived and disseminated at no cost to all readers worldwide through ScholarSpace. A complete set of HICSS proceedings will also be made available in the digital library of the Association of Information Systems (AIS).

https://hicss.hawaii.edu/resources/

Re: The impact of digital media on children’s intelligence

#259
post #256

I don't think the problem is that polygenic scores are noisy. (You can choose to make them less noisy by restricting to significant SNPs, for example.) And noise doesn't require directional bias. But to me there are 2 problems: (A) Polygenic scores for behavioral traits may be estimated in GWAS where the null assumptions (e.g., that mating is not conditioned on the trait being estimated) may not be valid[1]. That is…

> You can choose to make them less noisy by restricting to significant SNPs, for example. That makes them more noisy, not less. PGS predictive power for EDU/IQ is always maximized at use of all SNPs. Restricting to the arbitrary subset of genome-wide statistically-significant SNPs in Lee would drive it from the 7% or so they have to Also, neither of your two problems are the problem here, as the biases there would no…

> That makes them more noisy, not less.

Using only genome-wide significant SNPs reduces the amount of variance explained by the polygenic score, which is what you describe and I agree with. My comment about the concern about "noise" is with respect to a sibling comment ("Polygenic scores are powerful, but they contain very large amounts of noise compared to the true genetic effects.") That is the "noise" that I was addressing. And just as you say, the noise is, essentially, a worthwhile cost to pay since it should not be directional, and so we use various approaches to include thousands or millions of SNPs in these scores.

> Also, neither of your two problems are the problem here

I don't agree. These problems occur very clearly in any mixed-ancestry analyses, and they have to be carefully accounted for or else they induce between-ancestry bias. It's not a function of the phenotype itself (i.e., I'm not making a comment about intelligence); this is true for all polygenic scores.

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