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Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

nytimes.com

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Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#251

Post by ramblerman »

after_care wrote: post #157
hackeraccount wrote: post #104

I am so glad I got married and had a kid. My wife doesn't drink - and honestly it's way less fun to drink - even have a glass of wine with a meal - when someone else isn't. Plus with my daughter I don't drink when my wife isn't around because I'm always worried something is going to come up and I'll have to drive her some place on short notice. I think if it were just me on my own I might drink more ... and I always…

Always having meals with the same people, being consistently worried you’ll be responsible to drop what you’re doing on short notice to drive someone. I’m glad I did not marry or have kids.

So happy that you needed that snarky comment to reinforce the idea for yourself.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#252

Post by dfxm12 »

gameswithgo wrote: post #169
elliekelly wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason we, as a society, have decided certain health problems are moral failures to be treated with shame and cured through willpower alone rather than modern medical intervention.

Hmmm, in America the most common intervention is AA, whose doctrine is that willpower alone is not sufficient, that you must appeal to a higher power. We also know this intervention isn't any more effective than someone just trying get over it on their own, yet it persists, and is even court ordered often. There will be replies to this post about how AA "worked for them" or something to that effect. Which doesn't mea…

in America the most common intervention is AA, whose doctrine is that willpower alone is not sufficient, that you must appeal to a higher power. We also know this intervention isn't any more effective than someone just trying get over it on their own, yet it persists, and is even court ordered often.

I listen to old Lovelines from time to time and I thought it was weird when a caller asked Dr. Drew why he only suggests AA for alcohol addiction and never anything else. Dr. Drew, and even Adam Carolla, both got oddly defensive and started attacking the caller, as if even bringing up the question as to if alternatives exist was to question their authority to even speak on the matter. It just gave me a bad taste in my mouth for them to treat this twelve-step program as unquestionably the only way to deal with addiction.

But between that and the fact that AA is often court mandated, like you say, it makes me wonder why AA is put on this pedestal and people aren't given more treatment options.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#253

Post by newbamboo »

psychlops wrote: post #130

I notice that "the pandemic" is quickly found as the root cause and no analysis at all is done to identify if the response to the pandemic is to be implicated as well. I'd wager that waking up one day and discovering that one's job is not essential might be stressful. Being forbidden from going to the beaches and parks might have contributed. The stress of learned helplessness from countless bureaucratic decisions la…

No post body was provided.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#254

Post by AmblingAvocado »

jquery wrote: post #234
psychlops wrote: post #130

I notice that "the pandemic" is quickly found as the root cause and no analysis at all is done to identify if the response to the pandemic is to be implicated as well. I'd wager that waking up one day and discovering that one's job is not essential might be stressful. Being forbidden from going to the beaches and parks might have contributed. The stress of learned helplessness from countless bureaucratic decisions la…

As long as we're pushing preferred narratives (in your case: public health measures = bad), maybe it's because hospitals and treatment rooms were full of unvaccinated individuals and people who declined to social-distance or wear masks, preventing alcoholics in distress from getting the acute treatments they need. Certainly a lot of cancer patients died that way[1][2][3][4][5]. I know a lot of people who took advanta…

> Certainly a lot of cancer patients died that way.

This was not my experience, n=1 of course. My SO came down with lymphoma in November 2020. All of the appointments with the oncologist and all of the appointments for treatment took place at a cancer center dedicated to treating cancer patients. Other procedures generally took place at locations that did not offer emergency services (think biopsies and port installation).

At no point during diagnosis or treatment were we turned away nor did we face long wait times. This was before the vaccine was available, so everyone was unvaccinated at the time. The biggest barrier was getting seen for "a weird pain in my back that is preventing me from sleeping" without going through the emergency room and contracting COVID while waiting.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#255

Post by spurgu »

swatcoder wrote: post #245
psychlops wrote: post #130

I notice that "the pandemic" is quickly found as the root cause and no analysis at all is done to identify if the response to the pandemic is to be implicated as well. I'd wager that waking up one day and discovering that one's job is not essential might be stressful. Being forbidden from going to the beaches and parks might have contributed. The stress of learned helplessness from countless bureaucratic decisions la…

That’s an aritificially hostile take, isn’t it? Most people read “ the pandemic” as the global event that started around the beginning of 2020 and certainly that’s how this article and it’s title are using it. Even if you don’t read the article, it feels like a leap to assume that they’re suggesting that the virus itself somehow made people drink more irresponsibly or made people collectively more vulnerable to alcoh…

I'd say it's mainly that those who have been heavily advocating all of the lockdown measures throughout the pandemic have behaved more or less like there were no side effects and we should do them for the greater good (basically virtue signaling). The other isle has advocated that maybe we shouldn't cause that kind of turmoil in society just to spare a few years of lifespan of the elderly (which is a harsh take but doesn't make it untrue).

And just thinking about stupid concepts like outdoor masking makes me want to crack open a bottle of vodka.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#256

Post by swatcoder »

psychlops wrote: post #151
emerged wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you clearly didn’t read the article because the entire thing is talking about all of the sorts of causes you listed.

I disagree. The thesis reads "but the full impact of the pandemic’s collateral damage is still being tallied". The point above was regarding the response to the pandemic being considered as equal or greater contributors to the rise in alcoholic deaths. The failure and successes of the response should be distinctly studied to determine a better course of action for the next pandemic.

> The failure and successes of the response should be distinctly studied to determine a better course of action for the next pandemic.

For sure. I bet the authors agree. But wouldn't one necessarily need to answer "Did X meaningfully change during the pandemic?" before answering "How much of that change is attributable to which specific causes?"

This is a finding answers the first question and makes it a lot easier to fund research into the second. Every political strategist, economist, sociologist, historian, epidemiologist, and public health official wants answers to the same questions as you -- even while some anticipate a different answer than you might.

It just takes a minute to get there and there's some preliminary research to publish along the way.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#257

Post by spurgu »

kaishiro wrote: post #44

My older brother is an alcoholic. I suspect it's somewhat cliche to say, but when he's sober he's the nicest guy I know - almost nobody else I'd rather spend time with - and when he's drunk, he's chaos. The past few years he's been really struggling with sobriety - on and off like a roller coaster. The pandemic was an absolute nightmare for someone like him - in between jobs, trying to stay sober, trying to find the…

Tell him to try kratom if he hasn't.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#258

Post by jliptzin »

psychlops wrote: post #151
emerged wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you clearly didn’t read the article because the entire thing is talking about all of the sorts of causes you listed.

I disagree. The thesis reads "but the full impact of the pandemic’s collateral damage is still being tallied". The point above was regarding the response to the pandemic being considered as equal or greater contributors to the rise in alcoholic deaths. The failure and successes of the response should be distinctly studied to determine a better course of action for the next pandemic.

Who ever said the response to the pandemic was supposed to be without painful consequences? If the response to cancer is chemotherapy, that can be way more painful and inconvenient than the cancer itself, at least in the short run...the hope is to solve the problem so it doesn't end up killing you.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#259

Post by trentgreene »

swatcoder wrote: post #245
psychlops wrote: post #130

I notice that "the pandemic" is quickly found as the root cause and no analysis at all is done to identify if the response to the pandemic is to be implicated as well. I'd wager that waking up one day and discovering that one's job is not essential might be stressful. Being forbidden from going to the beaches and parks might have contributed. The stress of learned helplessness from countless bureaucratic decisions la…

That’s an aritificially hostile take, isn’t it? Most people read “ the pandemic” as the global event that started around the beginning of 2020 and certainly that’s how this article and it’s title are using it. Even if you don’t read the article, it feels like a leap to assume that they’re suggesting that the virus itself somehow made people drink more irresponsibly or made people collectively more vulnerable to alcoh…

You're correct, but also, "the pandemic" in that sense is so broad that it's not super helpful. It often feels equivalent to saying "the culture of the 60s produced Jimi Hendrix". What culture? What about it? Just artistic trends, or economic factors, or political factors? (which are themselves hand-wavy terms, and not all inclusive). It feels lazy

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#260

Post by standardUser »

dataengineer56 wrote: post #70
Cloudef wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly life isnt logical. Some people cant open up at all without alcohol. Alcohol may be their only way to connect with people. It can help them relax as it relives stress, some enjoy that it breaks the ice on social situations etc.. Human isnt logical being.

These are all misconceptions that the book addresses. Alcohol does not relieve stress, it deadens senses. To combat stress you need to solve the problem that is causing your stress. Alcohol does not improve confidence, it reduces inhibitions. Inhibitions are essential for being rational and making good decisions. See: people who have a drink and then injure themselves or get into fights.

I've read the book (and quit smoking with his other book) but I think he fails to account for the diversity of individual reactions to alcohol as a drug. Some people have an easier time drinking (few problems with addiction, no negative changes to behavior, minimal hangovers) than other people (easily addicted, bad moods/behaviors, disruptive hangovers). It's pretty easy to craft a compelling negative narrative if you're the latter type of drinker. Not so much if you're the former.

The same with smoking. I was viscously addicted to smoking and quitting was a living hell. But I've know people who were occasional smokers who decided to stop one day and had no problem doing so.

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