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Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

reuters.com

251–260 of 452 posts

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because sanctions might mean you can't get your money back from Russia. And Ukraine might not exist as a country soon.

What money would go into Russia? Just buy on a US stock exchange

You replied to a comment suggesting not putting money into Russian or Ukrainian stock exchanges, asking why not.

> Don't put any money into both stock exchanges right now, especially the russian one.

Then you are asking what money would go into Russia...

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#252
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, though, under international law China has every right to fly in those areas . Just like when we fly/sail 12 miles off Russia, or send ships past the islands China's making in the South China Sea. When we do it, it's a "freedom of navigation" exercise. Yes, it's testing air defenses, but it frustrates me when officials breathlessly act like it's a big deal.

With military aircraft? I don't think that's covered by international law, it doesn't sound right. Any country would object.

Do you think the ships sent in the Straits or near Russia are civilian ships...? Obviously not.

International law has to be enforced, one way or the other.

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#253
post #167

We should be talking about grain, not gas. Russia is the biggest exporter of wheat in the world with 18%. Ukraine accounts for 7% of the world's wheat. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/17/infographic-russia-... This conflict will affect 1/4 of the world's wheat which will affect food prices. In 2010 Russia stopped exporting wheat due to wildfires burning their fields (most likely caused by climate change). This…

We should be talking about human lives. My Ukrainian colleague was terrified for his family today.

You think a global increase of food prices will not have an effect on human lives?

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats what we get told, but there is always strategic reasons with so much stuff which few people get to hear about. On the news a while ago, the news was going on about how the UK is banning dual use goods, so this tells us some Govt dept has audited potentially every business and its goods and compiled a list of devices which can be considered multi use. You see this alot with chemicals, Glycerine, used as a cosmet…

>Glycerine, used as a cosmetic can also be used for bombmaking. I only found this out when I purchased a litre and then some internet forum started going on about how it can be used for bomb making. It's the chief component in dynamite. >Kind of explains why I also wasnt allowed an export licence for an app but also highlights who was behind it! When do you need an export license for an app?

This was like 5-10years ago, I developed a bug reporting app and developed a form of encryption which was uncrackable. Now I'm not qualified in anything, never even went to Uni, but what should have taken 6weeks with the UK Dept BIS, took like more than that and then got denied so I shut the business down I'd set up for it.

Dont have the source code anymore or anything and its not ever going to happen now.

When I say it was uncrackable, it was based loosely on code books which were used in ww2, which is something I subsequently read about later on in the news.

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But China is too much coupled with the western economy to even sanction effectively. I think CCP must be watching this to see the cost and benefits Russia gets for invading Ukraine, which would definitely influence their decision even more than Afghanistan would have. If the cost for Russia is too low, then they wouldn't be risking much.

Militarily attacking Taiwan would destroy the chip factories. China waiting 100 years to get HK back. They will wait for Taiwan. Slow economic warfare and they get it all without messy bullets.

It might but it also gives Xi something that will immortalise him like Mao. CCP didn't have the military might to fight the British Empire and by the time they could think about fighting UK for Hong Kong, the lease was about to get over and UK knew it might be difficult to get ally support to keep Hong Kong with them.

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#256

While the trade implications of this war are being consider, let's think of the lives of our fellow hackers. These are people who along side us develop the software of the world. They're not necessarily soldiers, they're just regular people and right now there are missiles flying at their homes, tanks in their streets. Surely there is a way we can help the people.

Yeah, anyone an idea? There is outages of the internet and mobile communications in some areas? For example is there anything one can do forom here about that?

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What money would go into Russia? Just buy on a US stock exchange

You replied to a comment suggesting not putting money into Russian or Ukrainian stock exchanges, asking why not. > Don't put any money into both stock exchanges right now, especially the russian one. Then you are asking what money would go into Russia...

Fair, but you can still buy Russian company stock on other exchanges, pink sheets, ect.

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#258
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neon is not the main reason they are doing it. It's a byproduct that gives them a little extra profit once they've distilled the air anyway for other reasons. Distilling the air just to get neon wouldn't be profitable.

No. But if you're Air Liquide or somebody in the US, and you're distilling the air anyway , adding the capability to extract the neon might make sense.

Only if the soviets hadn’t already spent until billions adding the capacity to overproduce it due to a perceived national security need that didn’t pan out.

It’s essentially free for the company to do this since the gov’t already sunk the cost decades ago.

No one has done that for Air liquide, at least not yet.

Re: Ukraine is a major producer of neon gas, critical for lasers used in chipmaking

#260

I've found the reason (I think) 90% of the world's semiconductor-grade neon production is concentrated in one country. Per this German government whitepaper about the noble gas industry: the USSR massively overinvested in neon capacity in the 1980's, in order to build space-based excimer laser weapons. Ukraine's extant plants date (probably) to the 1980's; they're responsible for a global oversupply that's persisted…

Given this piece of information, it's hard to see how 500-600,000 m3/a could be used for the lasers used in chip manufacture. Even if the whole world production drops by 99.9%, there's probably going to be more than enough for those lasers to continue working.

Edit: it also appears that the current state of the art chip manufacturing does not use excimer lasers anymore [1], and the prior generations used them, but not with Neon, but rather with Kripton and Argon.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excimer_laser#Photolithography

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