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Laravel 9

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Re: Laravel 9

#251

Post by ksec »

cutler wrote: post #213
_xnmw wrote: post #155

As a solo bootstrapped SaaS founder that literally relies on my app to pay my rent and food, I owe my sanity to Laravel. I've been doing web development for 10+ years. Nothing else understands the needs of a business owner AND solo programmer like Laravel does. I worked with Python (Flask/Django) for (4+ years) longer than I worked with Laravel (only 1 year), and yet I'm already 10x more productive in Laravel than I…

There's nothing in your list which doesn't have an equivalent in the Rails and Django ecosystems. Laravel is just another MVC framework built with a dynamically-typed scripting language. Rails, Django, Laravel - take your pick. Same wine in a similar bottle.

>doesn't have an equivalent

Having an equivalent and being included and used by default is very different. To the point Laravel is more opinionated ( so to speak ) than Rails.

Re: Laravel 9

#252

Post by ksec »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #70

Personally, I liked Laravel when I was first investigating it years ago, but was always a touch put off by the pervasive "I am beautiful, adore me" undercurrent throughout its design, documentation, and even comments. I'll be the first to admit that's not a rational critique. Having said that, though, Laravel is relatively unusual among major frameworks in that it doesn't seem to have been developed in tandem with a…

>Laravel commercialization model is "give us sufficient money and you'll barely have to write any code."

I actually think this is a good direction. Working its way backward to Low-Code.

Re: Laravel 9

#254

Post by bnt »

tomschlick wrote: post #44
durpleDrank wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could try LUMEN which is a lite version of Laravel. Took me around a day or two to fully get what was happening. I'm at the point now where I want to switch a big project I've been working on over to Laravel but it's a bit of a PITA. Anyway, for hello world stuff or a small api project try beginning with LUMEN. https://lumen.laravel.com/docs/8.x

Lumen is mainly feature complete and its mostly recommended to just use Laravel and unload the service providers you dont need.

Correct, Laravel + Octane is now recommended instead of Lumen.

Re: Laravel 9

#255

Post by tored »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #70

Personally, I liked Laravel when I was first investigating it years ago, but was always a touch put off by the pervasive "I am beautiful, adore me" undercurrent throughout its design, documentation, and even comments. I'll be the first to admit that's not a rational critique. Having said that, though, Laravel is relatively unusual among major frameworks in that it doesn't seem to have been developed in tandem with a…

It is quite obvious that Laravel is written by an American, they all do understand marketing better than us Europeans, Artisans creates works of art and it is eloquent even if it isn't.

What is great about Laravel is all the addons you can apply seamlessly.

But I can't say I like the overall design, too much magic for my taste and all the non-strict typing. Put things in the correct directory and things happen is generally a bad design. Use magic name on class object either as a property or a function and different things happen.

I do understand that it is easier for the framework developer to have loose typing, easier to swap implementations between major versions, but it makes it harder for the framework user. I have to, at least in older Laravel versions, apply a lot of annotations to get a pleasant developer experience.

In every Laravel project I haven been involved in I have needed to read the Laravel framework source code with all its layers to get grip what is actually going on and how it is related to my specific problem. However this have been true for every framework project I have been involved in, Laravel or not.

Re: Laravel 9

#256

Post by tored »

cutler wrote: post #221
TimWolla wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laravel definitely is everything, but light-weight. It's the slowest of the large names in PHP. see http://www.phpbenchmarks.com/en/comparator/framework or https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r20&hw=...

As soon as you throw an MVC framework into the mix with an ORM the much-touted speed gains of PHP in recents years vanish into thin air. That's because with heavy frameworks PHP's shared nothing architecture works against you.

Generally yes, but there has been at least some improvements regarding this with preloading shipped with PHP 7.4 and with the inheritance cache added to PHP 8.1, both synergize well with framework heavy code.

Re: Laravel 9

#257

Post by ivanhoe »

TimWolla wrote: post #53
ivanhoe wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO Laravel and Symfony are the best things that happened to PHP community since php5. PHP was an ugly mess of bad practices, fragmented into many outdated apps/frameworks and it was just exhausting to use. Symphony was a great improvement, but a bit too rigid and too enterprise-level for my taste. For me Laravel was honestly a breath of fresh air - finally I had something significantly more powerful than my custom…

Laravel definitely is everything, but light-weight. It's the slowest of the large names in PHP. see http://www.phpbenchmarks.com/en/comparator/framework or https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r20&hw=...

Compared to Zend, Symfony and other FWs popular a decade ago, Laravel 4 felt very light... or perhaps less complex is the right word, as I never really compared the file sizes, but it subjectively felt way easier to find your way around...

Re: Laravel 9

#258

Post by phendrenad2 »

jordanmorgan10 wrote: post #248
dabernathy89 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're used to it . You're wrong, though!

Haha not surprised - ecosystem seems to be doing very well.

The fact that everyone thinks that PHP is terrible is really good at keeping the ecosystem healthy. No one is swooping in and overcomplicating the stack for internet brownie points. If something exists, it exists to solve a real problem.

Re: Laravel 9

#259

Post by kyriakos »

cutler wrote: post #220
pluc wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see how it's seen as a benefit, but the flipside is that you're teaching your developers Laravel, not PHP. They assume whatever they do, they do in a good way because it's Laravel that does it which is great, but it abstracts actual knowledge. It's like if a developer uses SQL exclusively through an ORM and DBAL, how much can they be expected to know about the workings of SQL performance, indexes, etc. I also f…

I find it hard to imagine how anyone who groks Laravel well enough to get a product shipped could be deficient in understanding PHP. Surely such cases are outliers?

I regularly interview PHP developers for hiring and I can quickly classify them into 1. Wordpress Developers, 2. PHP developers and lately 3. Laravel developers.

Specifically for no 3 is the kind of developer who considers the framework magical and has no idea how things are done without it because they've learned framework first and the PHP basics to survive. They can do well for basic CRUD tasks but for anything trickier they get stuck.

Re: Laravel 9

#260

Post by ivanhoe »

TimWolla wrote: post #53
ivanhoe wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO Laravel and Symfony are the best things that happened to PHP community since php5. PHP was an ugly mess of bad practices, fragmented into many outdated apps/frameworks and it was just exhausting to use. Symphony was a great improvement, but a bit too rigid and too enterprise-level for my taste. For me Laravel was honestly a breath of fresh air - finally I had something significantly more powerful than my custom…

Laravel definitely is everything, but light-weight. It's the slowest of the large names in PHP. see http://www.phpbenchmarks.com/en/comparator/framework or https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r20&hw=...

> It's the slowest of the large names in PHP.

No, in 2022 it seems it's not. Just seen this benchmark today: Laravel is the 2nd fastest, after Kirby (but Kirby is static text files CMS so it's not really comparable). Not sure what exactly they've tested and it's probably not super realistic, but still it's far from calling Laravel the slowest.

https://twitter.com/getkirby/status/1493538621768581120

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