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Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

psyche.co

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Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#251

Post by nathias »

kragen wrote: post #169
PeterisP wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans and other primates are social animals, and pretty much all aspects of personal success and ability to influence the external world - survival and safety, access to nutrition, mates and other resources, and general power - are mostly determined by social factors, so "winning" at the social factors has been more important than what a single individual can achieve by exploiting the "real world" even since before…

Almost everything in your first paragraph is correct (though you accidentally capitalized "starving".) But everything in your second paragraph is incorrect. Even before the industrial revolution, it was commonplace for banished people to find a new place to live, either as hermits or as part of a new tribe; the outlawing and persecution of individual refugees and "stateless persons" is a Late Modern aberration. Since…

I really find it entertaining that all naive science supporters believe this myth about Galileo. The real story is very different, he wasn't prosecuted, he was put in house arrest, not for daring to science, but because he publically mocked his friend the pope. Anyway, it's a really interesting time to take a deep dive in.

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#254

Post by [deleted] »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #236
zepto wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commenter uses cancer as an analog for autism. That implies disease. It’s not a neutral comparison, and it’s not my bias that introduced the concept of disease. If you think it’s possible to make the same point without reference to a disease, then by all means do so.

oh darn, another pillar of moral rectitude is going after me, another day another HN comment as it were - very well then these are scooters https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71h6t5-7v7L._AC_SL1500_.... and so is this https://cdn.thewirecutter.com/wp-content/media/2021/12/elect... they both fall into the category of scooters although they perform at far different levels to where you can say the experience of them is…

[deleted]

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#256

Post by [deleted] »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #236
zepto wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commenter uses cancer as an analog for autism. That implies disease. It’s not a neutral comparison, and it’s not my bias that introduced the concept of disease. If you think it’s possible to make the same point without reference to a disease, then by all means do so.

oh darn, another pillar of moral rectitude is going after me, another day another HN comment as it were - very well then these are scooters https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71h6t5-7v7L._AC_SL1500_.... and so is this https://cdn.thewirecutter.com/wp-content/media/2021/12/elect... they both fall into the category of scooters although they perform at far different levels to where you can say the experience of them is…

[deleted]

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#257

Post by zepto »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #236
zepto wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commenter uses cancer as an analog for autism. That implies disease. It’s not a neutral comparison, and it’s not my bias that introduced the concept of disease. If you think it’s possible to make the same point without reference to a disease, then by all means do so.

oh darn, another pillar of moral rectitude is going after me, another day another HN comment as it were - very well then these are scooters https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71h6t5-7v7L._AC_SL1500_.... and so is this https://cdn.thewirecutter.com/wp-content/media/2021/12/elect... they both fall into the category of scooters although they perform at far different levels to where you can say the experience of them is…

It seems like you are simply agreeing that only some autistic people are disabled, and so autism isn’t a disability or disease.

You say people at the “extremes” are disabled, but that’s not true, because there are “extreme” savants who are not disabled.

Nobody is disputing that there are autistic people who are disabled, the claim is simply that autism doesn’t always mean disability.

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#258

Post by seba_dos1 »

tonguez wrote: post #247
seba_dos1 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, but that's not really related to what I said.

“Of course, but that's not really related to what I said.” You said sexuality is a “completely arbitrary and subjective social construct” and that “there's little point in trying to objectively categorize” it. Sex has been studied since animal husbandry existed. So what you said was obviously wrong.

Now go read up on what the word "sexuality" means, and how it relates to "sex".

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#259

Post by kragen »

nathias wrote: post #251
kragen wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost everything in your first paragraph is correct (though you accidentally capitalized "starving".) But everything in your second paragraph is incorrect. Even before the industrial revolution, it was commonplace for banished people to find a new place to live, either as hermits or as part of a new tribe; the outlawing and persecution of individual refugees and "stateless persons" is a Late Modern aberration. Since…

I really find it entertaining that all naive science supporters believe this myth about Galileo. The real story is very different, he wasn't prosecuted, he was put in house arrest, not for daring to science, but because he publically mocked his friend the pope. Anyway, it's a really interesting time to take a deep dive in.

As usual, the people posting smug dismissals to HN claiming to find it entertaining that someone might disagree with them, and to themselves know "the real story", are not well versed in the subject. While of course in some sense the real reason for any interpersonal conflict can never be disagreement over a question of facts, Galileo was in fact prosecuted, and the overt justification for his prosecution was, as my unfortunate interlocutor puts it, "daring to science." Quoting the introduction to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair:

> The Galileo affair (Italian: il processo a Galileo Galilei) began around 1610 and culminated with the trial and condemnation of Galileo Galilei by the Roman Catholic Inquisition in 1633. Galileo was prosecuted for his support of heliocentrism, the astronomical model in which the Earth and planets revolve around the Sun at the centre of the universe. ...

> Galileo's discoveries were met with opposition within the Catholic Church, and in 1616 the Inquisition declared heliocentrism to be "formally heretical." Galileo went on to propose a theory of tides in 1616, and of comets in 1619; he argued that the tides were evidence for the motion of the Earth.

> In 1632 Galileo published his Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, which defended heliocentrism, and was immensely popular. Responding to mounting controversy over theology, astronomy and philosophy, the Roman Inquisition tried Galileo in 1633 and found him "vehemently suspect of heresy" sentenced him to house arrest where he remained until his death in 1642. At that point, heliocentric books were banned and Galileo was ordered to abstain from holding, teaching or defending heliocentric ideas after the trial.

The rest of the article provides an even more thoroughgoing rejection of the confused ideas in the comment to which I am regrettably replying; the atom of truth in it is that, 16 years after first being prosecuted, he included the new Pope's own counterarguments in his book along with a rebuttal, which displeased the Pope, who had previously favored Galileo.

Re: Autistic people challenge preconceived ideas about rationality

#260

Post by alasdair_ »

wavegeek wrote: post #191
alasdair_ wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not Godwinning something if the term is literally named after a Nazi and only came about directly as a result of a Nazi eugenics program.

> the term is literally named after a Nazi Asperger was literally never a member of the Nazi party. So what you said it literally a lie.

This is a distinction without a difference. If someone holds Nazi beliefs and actively works with the Nazi party to achieve Nazi goals, most people would consider these people Nazis even if they didn't sign a bit of paper certifying that fact. Hans Asperger was loyal to the Nazi regime and took (horrible) actions to further the Nazi cause, and was rewarded by Nazi leadership for it.
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