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I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

benadam.me

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Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#251

Post by colinmhayes »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #230
colinmhayes wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Leetcode is systematically favoring candidates who have months of free time to memorize arbitrary logic puzzles Finding people who are willing to spend months in order to get the job is one of the biggest reasons companies use leetcode.

I've never used Leetcode, but it keeps coming up here. I've been interviewer a lot lately and I keep trying to find ways to filter out the candidates that care more about interview prep than solving real problems. Is this a nonstandard perspective?

I think Leetcode is a pretty decent way to filter for people who work hard and have at least decent critical thinking skills. I guess FAANGs have concluded 1. it's easier to test for those qualities than it is to test for engineering skills 2. those are the qualities that make a good developer.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#252

Post by throwawayboise »

timdellinger wrote: post #39
erehweb wrote: post #2

"It blew my mind how many business critical processes were managed with excel spreadsheets being shared via email chains." - this also blows my mind, given how many problems there are with Excel (e.g. formatting).

The alternative is to have these business processes managed using internally developed software that may or may not be supported as time passes... excel via email might (unfortunately) very well be the more robust and reliable way to go here

And with shared updatable spreadsheets (i.e. Google Sheets or Office 360) it's even better.

SMEs are going to be way more likely to throw together a spreadsheet to accomplish some immediate goal than they are to sit down with an internal software project manager and spend hours educating them on the problem to be solved and writing "user stories"

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#253

Post by xtracto »

CrazyStat wrote: post #235
taurath wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what they always say but they never say which orgs are good or bad. When you’re a candidate you are rolling the dice

Perhaps every other org is a good one. --- "I'm sure I'll take you with pleasure!" the Queen said. "Two pence a week, and jam every other day." Alice couldn't help laughing, as she said, "I don't want you to hire me – and I don't care for jam." "It's very good jam," said the Queen. "Well, I don't want any to-day, at any rate." "You couldn't have it if you did want it," the Queen said. "The rule is, jam to-morrow and…

This is perfect :) . I am as illiterate as one can be, but loved this reference.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#254

Post by notreallyserio »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #230
colinmhayes wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Leetcode is systematically favoring candidates who have months of free time to memorize arbitrary logic puzzles Finding people who are willing to spend months in order to get the job is one of the biggest reasons companies use leetcode.

I've never used Leetcode, but it keeps coming up here. I've been interviewer a lot lately and I keep trying to find ways to filter out the candidates that care more about interview prep than solving real problems. Is this a nonstandard perspective?

Candidates are taught by peers and previous experience what to expect in interviews. It wouldn't take more than 1 or 2 failed leetcode interviews for me to start spending significant time on 'em.

I don't know if it's fair to say the candidates care more about prep than solving real problems if they're just reacting to what at least some employers are expecting.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#255

Post by NotVerstappen »

peakaboo wrote: post #143

I glanced through the leadership principles and laughed a bit. I feel sorry for the people who think they have to put up with that bullshit. It all boils down to making the employees working as hard as possible, that's the single reason those principles exist. To make specially young and clueless employees forget it's just a job, because hey, it must be an obsession! If you are young, this may seem normal i guess but…

Leadership principles feature in normal employee life in exactly two circumstances: when you are doing interview loops, and when you need to win an argument, eg with some jobsworth sales person who wants you to over-promise to a customer.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#256

Post by lloydatkinson »

prirun wrote: post #173
kahrl wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Performance Improvement Plan: "We're trying to fire you but need to do it by the books as to mitigate liability."

I don't understand why people keep saying this. Every state except Montana in the US is "at will": the employer can fire you at any time with no reason. I suppose you could try to prove discrimination because of age or something else, but just like you can walk out and never come back, the employer can ask you to leave and you're done. Companies have no liability if you are fired other than a discrimination lawsuit.…

The internet is bigger than america, it's a shame I need to remind you.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#257

Post by majormajor »

robby_w_g wrote: post #125
sharkweek wrote: post #25

Hey congrats on making it 10 months! "Urgent to not block progress, but also ironic that they are asking a person who has no clue what they are doing to deliver critical work" Friend of mine started a role there (this was 4-5 years ago) and was fired (sorry... more or less asked to leave, being told he could keep his signing bonus if he just left) within about six weeks because he wasn't immediately delivering on som…

> I bag on Amazon a lot on here (which if I were to review with my therapist is likely because I had an absolutely HORRENDOUS experience in an interview loop with them my first step out of college that still makes me nervous in interviews, even 15 years later). Hey, I had a similar experience with Google! It was my first technical interview for my first job out of college. The interviewer laughed at my code, and then…

I would love to know how long the average FANG dev spent on leetcode practice before their interviews. From my small sample of friends who've done stints there, it's far less than "months". I similarly have had - but declined - an offer from one of them with prep measured in "hours" not "days."

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#258

Post by [deleted] »

tablespoon wrote: post #91
MattGaiser wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon has to be at the point of literally running out of nearby human beings to be concerned about retention. https://www.essence.com/news/amazon-burning-through-workers/

> Amazon has to be at the point of literally running out of nearby human beings to be concerned about retention. It seems like they're more than willing to hire imports. I get more recruiter spam from them than anyone else, and I don't live anywhere near any of their major offices.

[deleted]

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#259

Post by ksdale »

endymi0n wrote: post #245
Salgat wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just wish companies that didn't have the applicant pool of a FAANG company understood this. Leetcode for your average dev company is a great way to lose a massive portion of the qualified talent pool. I can guarantee almost every SaaS developer never touches dynamic programming beyond simple memoization, yet its tested so much. You might as well test a French Cuisine Chef on how well his Chinese cooking is.

> You might as well test a French Cuisine Chef on how well his Chinese cooking is. A way more apt comparison would be evaluating him on his knive sharpening skills.

As someone who knows nothing about being a professional chef, it surprises me to discover that a professional chef wouldn't be very comfortable sharpening knives!

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#260

Post by mk89 »

stayfrosty420 wrote: post #199
robby_w_g wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I bag on Amazon a lot on here (which if I were to review with my therapist is likely because I had an absolutely HORRENDOUS experience in an interview loop with them my first step out of college that still makes me nervous in interviews, even 15 years later). Hey, I had a similar experience with Google! It was my first technical interview for my first job out of college. The interviewer laughed at my code, and then…

> Leetcode is systematically favoring candidates who have months of free time to memorize arbitrary logic puzzles I agree to some extent but moreso, I think it heavily favours those with a theoretical CS background, which means effectively you are favouring candidates from top colleges in a round about way.

I honestly don't believe it has anything to do with the college level.

No offense, but you study python, learn its basic syntax + "algorithm design" book + 1 practical book about algorithms and data structures and you're good enough for performing good/optimal leetcodes.

Some things you might miss, for example some exercises you can optimize better if you know some algebra/maths, but 90% of that stuff is more or less repetitive. Once you learn the tricks etc, it really becomes repetitive because finally it's just if/else and for loops. (I don't mean to minimize in any way the effort it takes to make such exercises, it's just the feeling I had while doing some and failing a lot of them).

It's always about specializing one or two specific algorithms you have found in the book[s]. Sometimes it requires coming up with very creative ideas - better for loops. :)

For me Leetcodes are not per se bad. I still learnt something from "being forced" to do them which I probably wouldn't have done if i hadn't been forced. What I despise is the fact that companies have lost accountability in hiring. It's hard to interview, so it's better to rely on an "industry standard" - after all Amazon and Google do the same, so why shouldn't we?

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