The state of external retina displays • Hacker News Board

Re: The state of external retina displays

#251

Post by minimaul » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 2:46 AM UTC

chrismorgan wrote: post #246

minimaul wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This specific issue is definitely a macOS problem - instead of doing proper resolution independent rendering, macOS just renders at 2x the 'looks like' resolution, and then scales the result to fit the panel. But even on Windows, the choices at 27" 4K aren't great. 100% is too small. 200% is too large. 150% is quite nice, but I find apps regularly don't scale properly, and text still isn't as nice as 200% on a 5K dis…

> Fractional scaling is a mixed bag and a lot of apps have broken or compromised UI when it's in use. I use 1.5× scaling in Sway, and haven’t observed even the slightest problem in any Wayland app. (I also use the high-DPI patches for XWayland, and run it at 3×, so that it’s an integer multiple of my scaling factor, a minor visual improvement on the very few X11 things I use that is probably not worth it.) I will not…

The one that sticks in my memory the most was a bunch of issues with Qt-based apps in particular where UI would scale in 1x, 2x, 3x steps, but font size would scale with the fractional size specified.

Led to some pretty broken looking UI.

Re: The state of external retina displays

#252

Post by whatever1 » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 2:48 AM UTC

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #238

BoorishBears wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I buy a $5k monitor and donate more than that, are you satisfied then? Why turn this into a morality play?

> What if I buy a $5k monitor and donate more than that, are you satisfied then? I don't believe you would actually do this or you wouldn't make that comment, but either way don't do it to satisfy me. > Why turn this into a morality play? As I said, a lot of people are struggling and hungry. The point of the comment is to inject a little reality in to the idea that a $4,000 monitor is "worth it" because someone is at…

In Europe we don’t kindly ask for your extra money. We just tax it. Takes the moral dilemmas out of the equation.

Re: The state of external retina displays

#253

Post by mmis1000 » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 2:48 AM UTC

minimaul wrote: post #79

petschge wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a MacOS problem, not a "220dpi is not enough" problem.

This specific issue is definitely a macOS problem - instead of doing proper resolution independent rendering, macOS just renders at 2x the 'looks like' resolution, and then scales the result to fit the panel. But even on Windows, the choices at 27" 4K aren't great. 100% is too small. 200% is too large. 150% is quite nice, but I find apps regularly don't scale properly, and text still isn't as nice as 200% on a 5K dis…

Ummm, I think 274K on 200% is definitely fine? I just use it as 1080p with better text rendering and graphic. I don't even use it at 150% because that at a 50 ~ 60 viewing distance isn't really a pleasure experience. Did you place the monitor very close to your eyes?

Re: The state of external retina displays

#254

Post by derekdahmer » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 2:49 AM UTC

spatulon wrote: post #201

jasonjmcghee wrote: post #71

LG 27GN950 seems like it hits a a lot of the criteria others are discussing. It is not 220 PPI though. 4K IPS at 144Hz (or 120Hz depending on video card) HDR 400 nits It also rotates to portrait mode, has a built in backlight for eyestrain, is essentially borderless- and it's $800-900. Have had it over a year with no issues.

I have this as well, and I like it, but it's quite difficult to find a computer capable of driving it at 4K and 144Hz. You can only do that if your GPU supports DisplayPort Stream Compression. My GeForce 960 does not, so I can only drive it at 95Hz (I'd buy a better GPU, if I could find one...). It doesn't support HDMI 2.1 either, although there's a newer model, the 27GP950-B, that does. It's kind of funny to me that…

I have the same problem. I got a the Neo G9 which can do 240hz but if I want 10-bit HDR it’s limited to 60hz on both my 2019 MBP and Geforce 1080 PC because neither supports HDMI 2.1 or DSC. Windows can do 8-bit + dithering at 120hz which is actually fine but still feels like a silly limitation.

Re: The state of external retina displays

#255

Post by watersb » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 2:50 AM UTC

Very basic geometry problem, in which I discover that a 32-inch display with a pixel density of 218 pixels/inch (to match Apple displays) requires 6108 x 3436 pixels.

An 8k display would be 40 inches.

h = 32, 218 = p / x, c = 16/9 y, x = h cos(t), y = h sin(t), h^2 = x^2 + y^2, 90 = t + s, x > 0, y > 0, h > 0

Re: The state of external retina displays

#256

Post by killjoywashere » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 2:52 AM UTC

I bought 2 XDRs because they are stupid-cheap compared to BARCO clinical options. Check out the Coronis and Steris lines if you really want to spend some money. It's been a while I since I did the comparison, but as I recall, the BARCOs are not hands-down better than the XDR, despite 5x the price.

Re: The state of external retina displays

#257

Post by derekdahmer » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 2:53 AM UTC

ds wrote: post #22

If you care about HDR, ironically enough there are only 4 options for a decent monitor as well- And almost all of them are nearly impossible to buy new. Some of these monitors are also years old https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCcSK3R8HcM * 27" 3840x2160 ASUS PG27UQ / ACER PREDATOR X27 (same panel in both monitors) 32" 3840x2160 ASUS PG32UQX 35" 3440x1440 ASUS PG35VQ 49" 5120x1440 Samsung Neo G9

I bought a Neo G9 on Black Friday. It took 3 weeks to ship but they are available!

Re: The state of external retina displays

#258

Post by dylan604 » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 2:54 AM UTC

vvoaterr wrote: post #236

dylan604 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It just sits there telling me I'm practically a criminal I mean, you bought stolen goods. The law says you are culpable to some degree. If this was a legit sale, the original owner would be willing to do what's needed to make it useable.

The original owner dropped it off somewhere when his YouTube app stopped working, which probably happened years and years ago.

If you bought it from a less than reputable vendor, then this is the kind of thing that happens. If a reseller purchased this from the original owner in this condition, I would not call them a reputable dealer.

Apologies if this sounds like victim blaming, it's not what I'm going for. Just trying to enlighten on how to avoid this in the future.

Re: The state of external retina displays

#259

Post by mmis1000 » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 2:55 AM UTC

nickjj wrote: post #145

floatboth wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm using a 28" 4K (with Wayland, which does scaling exactly like macOS) — used to use 1.5x with downscaling but switched to 2x "huge UI" for perfect crispness and honestly? It's not bad. It's actually good. Don't fear the big buttons :)

> switched to 2x "huge UI" for perfect crispness and honestly? It's not bad. It's actually good. Don't fear the big buttons :) There's always a balance and trade-off here. 2x scaling with 4k really means you end up with the same screen real estate as 1080p. In my opinion I would very much prefer 24" or 25" at 1440p with native scaling which is ~120 PPI. I personally run both a 25" 1440p display and another 24" 1440p…

> you end up with the same screen real estate as 1080p.

Is that even a problem? I am not buying better screen to torture my eyes. IMO. A smaller sharper text won't really be easier to see compared to a larger but blurrer text.

Re: The state of external retina displays

#260

Post by brandonmenc » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 2:55 AM UTC

thebean11 wrote: post #235

brandonmenc wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have owned the LG 5K UltraFine monitor for 6 months and it's the greatest thing ever. I will never go back to 4K. I drive it with an OWC Thunderbolt 3 dock with CalDigit Thunderbolt cables and a maxed out 13" 2020 MacBook Pro, and as of the latest version of macOS Big Sur it is rock solid. It's mounted on a monitor arm, so I can't comment on the included stand.

How is the OWC dock? I just got the CalDigit, but super disappointed that the monitors often don't reconnect on wake from sleep.

I have both of these docks.

The OWC is my primary dock, but I did try the CalDigit one for a bit (both TB3.) Why? Same problem you're having - the monitors would never wake from sleep.

At the time I was using a Dell P2415Q with macOS and this monitor would just refuse to wake up from sleep or when I swapped laptops on the dock. It "just worked" far less than half of the time. I would have to hard power cycle by unplugging the monitor power cable - power button recycle was rarely sufficient.

I could never find a fix for this, but after a lot of searching I was led to believe that it was a problem with EDID and macOS with this particular monitor. I never confirmed this though.

The problem was almost entirely fixed with the latest macOS Big Sur update. I have to power cycle the monitor only a couple times a month now. Huge difference, and seems to be the case with both docks.