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There's never been a better time to build websites

simeongriggs.dev

251–260 of 337 posts

Re: There's never been a better time to build websites

#251

I have a feeling that this is the next religious war in dev. I read this article and shudder in horror at, well, all of it. I like static sites (that wouldn't take minutes to build if they were written in a decent language). Adding lots and lots of JS dependencies and frameworks gives me the screaming ab-dabs - it's just adding complexity and dependency. I like writing code, not plumbing together bits of other people…

> I like writing code, not plumbing together bits of other people's code with bizarre config files I don't like reinventing the wheel every time I build something

Ideally, I like to build on top of a batteries-included base. Failing that, I'd rather reinvent wheels than spend all my time impedance-matching with glue.

The problem with bizarre config files is that you repeatedly have to learn enough to make them work but then do not need to use that knowledge again until after you've long since forgotten and you have to start the learning process from scratch.

Re: There's never been a better time to build websites

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, tailwind might make css a lot easier, and github copilot might make coding a lot faster... but is this really easier than in the early 90ies, when you could just type into notepad and make a website that didn't require any CSS or images or JS or even more than just the most basic html tags? The thing is you can still do all of this. But we have since built tools and frameworks to let you still do this, while g…

Question: Are people using tailwind for layout? Even when CSS grid is available? If so what is the benefit of tailwind layouts over modern CSS, beyond what tailwinds usually brings?

Tailwind is more of a method of writing CSS than a framework. Many people are writing modern CSS layouts IN tailwind, which you can consider a dialect of inline styles.

Re: There's never been a better time to build websites

#253
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If "dynamic" means "the content comes from a database", as in Drupal or Wordpress "Dynamic" simply means that you aren't serving a static file from your server, but - in case with Wordpress and Drupal - pulling all the requests through a script that processes them, and returns generated plaintext data (HTML/XML/whatever) every time. If you move the response-generating script/software from your public web server, an…

Thanks for the clear explanation. I understand why one would render the entire database to HTML; that's what we used to do on our servlet-based CMS. What I was unclear about was the static/dynamic terminology. Now it's clear.

static: HTML, CSS, images, JS, all served from the server's filesystem to the site visitor over the network. no server-side code execution to generate the page content.

dynamic: non-HTML server-side code (PHP, Perl, Ruby etc.) is evaluated/executed to generate site content which is then sent over the network to the site visitor. this may involve hitting databases to get content for the requested page, or even make network queries for integrations with other services (social media feeds, payment processor sessions, etc.). the server then returns the generated HTML to the visitor.

I just realized these two Wikipedia articles summarize the two different approaches quite well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_web_page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_web_page

Re: There's never been a better time to build websites

#255

The technology is far more advanced and bordering on magical in some cases, but most front-end web-development is far more painful and less fun to me than it once was. Say about 15 years ago or so, if you had a creative inspiration for a personal site, you could whip out a text editor and start building top-notch stuff very easily. About the most complicated thing you had to do to start building something was adding…

Do you really have to? I'm still building sites front-end with mostly HTML, CSS and jQuery or even vanilla JS.

Re: There's never been a better time to build websites

#256
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting point! What would you say the full realisation of RSS would look like? Also, the weapons metaphor was mostly just responding in the frame of the original language about 'pushing back on big tech', 'shattered by big tech', etc. And I do agree with that framing: I think there is a tussle over the direction of the internet – tussle, battle, tug of war, whatever you want to call it – and I'm not sure it helps…

RSS is pub/sub, right? Doesn't social media like Facebook, LinkedIn or Twitter - where you post stuff and other people post stuff - resemble that? Replace 'your' account, profile or page with your own website. With the right website software it's easy to have an RSS feed nowadays, so the only thing that's missing is website software that also works like an RSS reader. In the most basic sense you only have to read XML…

> the only thing that's missing is website software that also works like an RSS reader. In the most basic sense you only have to read XML with your program

This is a fascinating idea. I often think that Twitter's success, unlike Facebook's or Google's, is fundamentally as a protocol - and one which shouldn't have been centralised under the control of one company. And incidentally it seems Jack Dorsey thinks the same way, since he's suggested the possibility of having one core protocol for tweets, on top of which people could build their own frontends, and users could choose from a marketplace of both (a) frontends and (b) algorithms for filtering and ordering what they see.

I do agree with you: what's missing from RSS is not the existence of the protocol, nor even necessarily the 'supply side' of websites providing it (like you say, largely courtesy of Wordpress), but the 'demand side' which really needs a well-designed interface to consume that kind of content. I absolutely agree with you that this feels like a huge area of potential.

And thinking on a more second-order level: I wonder if one thing that's preventing these innovations is a suitable, easy 'base' for people to build this software on. For example, take `create-react-app` for the web. Countless things have been made because people know that they have that simple base to start with. For building a web browser alternative, there's no equivalent for most people: they don't know where to start. If we had a simply bundled toolkit such that people only had to write some business logic, I wonder how much more would be done.

> P.S. Sorry for ranting about the weapons metaphor. I triggered on it and felt the need to tell what I think about language.

No prob at all! Susan Sontag wrote a really interesting essay 'AIDS And Its Metaphors' in the same vein, specifically about the use of war metaphors about AIDS and cancer: "fighting", "losing the battle", &c. (It's the culmination of a series of essays on the same topic, but this is the most thought-provoking of them, IMO.) You might enjoy it. I particularly liked:

> The metaphor implements the way particularly dreaded diseases are envisaged as an alien 'other', as enemies are in modern war; and the move from the demonisation of the illness to the attribution of fault to the patient is an inevitable one, no matter if patients are thought of as victims. Victims suggest innocence. And innocence, by the inexorable logic that governs all relational terms, suggests guilt.

Wikipedia has a great summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_and_Its_Metaphors#Militar... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_and_Its_Metaphors

Re: There's never been a better time to build websites

#257
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is more experimental protocols to enrich the web, New protocols are DOA until we significantly nerf the incentives to "own" the user. IOW it's not gonna happen until we outlaw anything that resembles spying on users. And maybe also ads generally.

> And maybe also ads generally. This is all well and good, but then we need a serious alternative funding model for websites. Right now, a lot of people with adblockers are benefiting from a situation fausse where they free-ride on the ad-click revenue generated by others. I think in some people's minds this leads to an impossible expectation that they can continue to enjoy freely provided services, provided at consi…

You make a very good point about adblockers having that negative second-order effect where they continue to let people have the expectation of getting things that are intrinsically expensive (storage, bandwidth, sysadmins) for free - I didn't think about that before.

As for alternative funding models - why not microtransactions? Attaching an explicit price tag onto website access (subscription model) or individual media/document objects (standard "pay for what you use" model) would have some other beneficial effects, such as reducing extraneous media consumption (mindlessly scrolling for hours suddenly starts costing you money, better to buy a book and get value out of it) - most advertisements are a mental cancer that we should try to get rid of anyway.

Re: There's never been a better time to build websites

#258
post #120

I am still reluctant to use JS/CSS frameworks. What I learned in 10 years is the fact that I hate learning useless abstractions that will eventually fade within the span of 18/36 months. The joy in web dev for me is creating stuff not learning how to use frameworks.

The frameworks are really stable these days. There was like one major change in React since it's beginning - introducing of hooks. But if you got in right 8 years ago, you can just sit and write a good SPA with that knowledge

Vue.js is the only frontend framework that I have some clue about, and the first blog post when googling 'Vue 2 to 3 migration' [0] says it took them 4 man-weeks to migrate their product.

From my limited experience, the main issue is that it's really hard to ensure frontend actually works as before, after upgrading frontend libraries/frameworks, outside of having really extensive end-to-end test suite.

[0] https://crisp.chat/blog/vuejs-migration/

Re: There's never been a better time to build websites

#260
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you try it on mobile, it's mostly crap. Let's not treat HTML tables as being some super special ability. If HN were implemented exactly the same but with flexbox or grid for layout, it would be objectively better with no drawbacks I can think of.

HN is fantastic on mobile. Much better than Reddit, even old.reddit and i.reddit.

Yeah it's easily one of THE best mobile sites I use.
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