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President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

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Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#251
For Chinese students studying in the US in the time after Tiananmen Square massacre this is nothing new. I was in grad school before and after the event and there were a large number of Chinese students in my department, geoscience. At my university it was probably true at the time that around half of the grad students in geosciences were Chinese.

I came to know several of them, though not to the point of knowing any of them well. Tiananmen was such a serious event for these students. I know there was pressure on them to avoid any discussions related to the event and especially to to avoid any statements supporting the students who protested and died.

I had a conversation with one of these men that I knew best and whom I studied with and after all the geoscientific things had been beaten down until we felt we had achieved a deeper understanding of the topic, talk turned to world events. I didn't steer it in that direction, he brought it up after looking around to make sure that we were alone and especially that there were no other Chinese students in the room that might overhear. We discussed Tiananmen Square for a few minutes and at the conclusion he mentioned the fear that he had of discussing that subject with anyone. He had to be careful who he studied with and talked with as some of his fellow students were known to be strong supporters of the Chinese Communist Party and they would report anyone they determined to be supportive of the dead students. He told me that their families back home might suffer as a result. His absence of trust in those with whom he had the most in common - language, culture, etc really drove home the depth of the fear that he felt. Discussing that event with any of them was just not going to happen since he feared for his family back home.

You had to be there. There was so much positive change in the air back then with dictatorships under threat, communism being exposed and challenged, young people full of the knowledge that they could effect meaningful change in their lives if they were willing to take a stand or to fight for it.

Thirty years is a long time. It has certainly been plenty of time for the Chinese Communists to rise to their current status by adopting the things most useful in other systems while imposing an iron hand of control over the parts of the system that maintain their own power.

A number of these students stayed in the US or moved to the EU for employment in the industry after grad school. Others returned to China to help develop their domestic oil and gas industry.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#252
post #229

The brainwashing must be strong for students thousands of miles away from China in the middle of nowhere Indiana for them to feel the need to snitch on dissenters. Or, more likely, they were threatened before they left China that they would be watched while abroad.

This is the tried-and-tested Stasi technique. You don't need to be brainwashed, you just need to be afraid. Afraid of being reported yourself , if you don't report others. You never know, if the "other" was just a false flag to test your reporting. You never know if your best friend, who also witnessed the same thing, reported. He doesn't know if you reported. Reverse prisoner's dilemma.

> You never know, if the "other" was just a false flag to test your reporting. You never know if your best friend, who also witnessed the same thing, reported. He doesn't know if you reported.

I am worried about the authoritarian turn my country (not China) is taking. But reading and contemplating these words sent a shiver down my spine.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#253
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US embarrassments, however, have movies made about them, as opposed to burying them as deeply as possible whilst simultaneously threatening every single citizen with, essentially, removal from society, if they speak against the chosen narrative. No country is innocent, some are, however, free (moreso, at least, enough to matter, enough to choose if the need arises).

I have yet to see a feature-length film depicting Trump the way, e.g. Oliver Stone's "W" or Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11" depicted Bush. Trump's crimes are buried in a mountain of...other crimes, and the atmosphere is so thick with bullshit that investigating facts is to tempt a firehouse of political hate of epic proportions. I think certain topics are virtually suicide these days.

I think that's just a case of not enough time having passed. There's probably so much material to sift through.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#254
post #135
post #83

Thanks. Only for the record, the message I get from EU: 451: Unavailable due to legal reasons We recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU which enforces the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and therefore access cannot be granted at this time. For any issues, contact help@purdueexponent.org or call 765-743-1111. Maybe it…

People of the EU might want to seriously reconsider the GDPR after seeing its affects such as this.

As an EU citizen: Actually, no. Now, if only we could get rid of the dark-patterned cookie dialogs..

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#255

This is just an example of the different ethics between China and America. America is very deontological in terms of FREEDOM. We love freedom above everything else. China is very consequentialist, they care about prosperity and success over everything else. I'm a pretty red blooded American (I drive a black smoke diesel truck and have enough firearms and ammo to make it pretty far in the apocalypse). I wonder what et…

Completely disagree with your portrayal of consequentialism. Freedom absolutely provides utility, and allowing the government to disappear people who disagree with it is in no way a path to maximizing utility.

I don't think you're down in the weeds enough. China does have freedom to a degree. Obviously there's lots of ways where they have zero freedom also. But it certainly looks like the CCP is attempting to maximize freedom where it provides utility and minimize it where it hurts their goals or prosperity.

I vehemently disagree with that stance, but I do want acknowledge the CCP's actual stance.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#256
post #242

This is just an example of the different ethics between China and America. America is very deontological in terms of FREEDOM. We love freedom above everything else. China is very consequentialist, they care about prosperity and success over everything else. I'm a pretty red blooded American (I drive a black smoke diesel truck and have enough firearms and ammo to make it pretty far in the apocalypse). I wonder what et…

Are you genuinely comparing Tianamen Square to centuries of slavery?

The Chinese also don't talk about a lot of the bad things that happened in the great leap forward, which could have a case made that it was worse than slavery.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those movies are more often than not glorifying such embarrassments, which make them propaganda. As an analogy for China & the US, you can say one of them is Orwellian while the other is Huxleyan. They're both oppressive, but it's about time to stop pretending only coercion is bad; propaganda is everywhere in american media and it's the same tactic used by autocracies in the 40s: spin everything you do as "us vs them…

There is no way you can truthfully say that the US went to Iraq to murder an ethnicity. Flagged.

I'm still waiting for the incontestable proof China is trying to get rid of Uygurs. No, a known anti-China source such as Adrian Zenz being propped up by adversaries of China does not count. If you have the slightest understanding of discourse, you already know this: you don't get a biased source to report on the subject they're biased about.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#258

The scale of some Chinese people's commitment to support of their government's chosen narrative against facts is quite impressive / scary. Zealots make great cannon fodder, and the more cannon fodder the higher the chance of winning. It bodes poorly for Hong Kong, Taiwan, and any other country with a coastline along the South China Sea.

My low-information view is that the Chinese government is an extraordinarily effective communications agency who very clearly understands the role that university students play in transmitting culture, especially when studying abroad, and has very openly worked to help spread their message throughout their diaspora. Many US universities have a Chinese Student & Scholar Association and it's not like they try to hide t…

The CSSA is part of the CCP’s overseas surveillance and intimidation arm.

I speculated last year that the CSSA was also involved in the arrest of Chinese student Luo Daiqing from the University of Minnesota. He was arrested when he set foot in China for Xinnie the Pooh meme tweets he made while in the states.[0]

[0] https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/university-of-min...

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#259
post #244
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Whether a one-state outcome in Israel entails apartheid or whether the terrorists among Palestinian leadership positions is fundamentally different than Sinn Fein are wonky policy nerd topics. That's not what the modern right is about. It is about denying the bodily autonomy of women, for example. And they wonder why women won't touch them.

Thank you for informing me on what my argument is.

Don't get heat stroke fighting all of those strawmen.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#260
post #242

This is just an example of the different ethics between China and America. America is very deontological in terms of FREEDOM. We love freedom above everything else. China is very consequentialist, they care about prosperity and success over everything else. I'm a pretty red blooded American (I drive a black smoke diesel truck and have enough firearms and ammo to make it pretty far in the apocalypse). I wonder what et…

Are you genuinely comparing Tianamen Square to centuries of slavery?

No, they are comparing the atrocities of the Chinese government that inspired Tianamen Square to slavery, without saying that the two are equivalent
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