Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 262 posts

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#251

Post by ekianjo »

acdha wrote: post #180
ekianjo wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can be getting other people sick You must be missing the part that vaccinated people transmit the virus just the same. This is not a sterilizing vaccine we are dealing with.

That's not boolean: vaccinated individuals transmit _less_ than the unvaccinated. It's not as good as we'd like but it's better than doing nothing and given how quick, easy, and cheap vaccines are it's like mandating seatbelt usage even if you know that some people will still be injured.

> transmit _less_ than the unvaccinated.

you will have to come with a citation needed to make that claim. I have seen studies showing exactly the opposite of what you claim.

You also have to factor the social aspect. Vaccinated people, thinking they are protected, are way less careful now and therefore have a higher propensity to transmit the virus.

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#252

Post by ekianjo »

belltaco wrote: post #177
ekianjo wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if health insurers will start denying claims related to the treatment of COVID infections Will health insurers deny claims related to cancer if you have been drinking alcohol? Good luck living in that world.

Quitting alcohol is nowhere as easy as getting covid vaccines. If there was a cheap/free safe vaccine that reduced the chances of getting hospitalized or dying of cancer by >60%, your point would be more valid.

If you don't have 3-4 comordibities your risk of hospitalization + dying of COVID is so low it's close to zero. Not sure what you point is, unless you consider everyone has loads of comorbidities out there.

> Quitting alcohol is nowhere as easy as getting covid vaccines

you have a choice to buy the next bottle or not, as far as I know. It's not like addiction is unavoidable. And cancer risk for alcohol consumption is not even related to addiction, you increase your risk of cancer significantly even with a small, non-zero consumption of alcohol. Look at the data.

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#253

Post by ekianjo »

criddell wrote: post #233
s1artibartfast wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are clearly not the same, but you first have to make the claim that insurance coverage should be tied to ease of prevention at all, before arguing where the line should be. I'm not aware of any other risky behaviors that exclude coverage, so this would be a precedent.

I've since come around and now think they wouldn't exclude coverage, but they might charge a different premium. That seems fair.

So are they going to charge premiums for gay people because they have a higher risk of STDs? Seems fair to you?

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#254

Post by Chris2048 »

epistasis wrote: post #13
nsxwolf wrote: post #6

This is just life, forever. Totally unprecedented. You will get a vaccination every 6 months for the rest of your life or be totally excluded from all civil rights. There will be no end. If the virus mutates to become harmless, the mandates will be given all the credit, and we will double down on this system. It's not temporary.

There is no civil right to work at Google...

and yet unfair dismissal is a thing.

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#255

Post by criddell »

ekianjo wrote: post #253
criddell wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've since come around and now think they wouldn't exclude coverage, but they might charge a different premium. That seems fair.

So are they going to charge premiums for gay people because they have a higher risk of STDs? Seems fair to you?

You wouldn't charge gay people more because that isn't a choice.

Do you think it's unfair that smokers pay more for life insurance?

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#256

Post by JoeAltmaier »

criddell wrote: post #255
ekianjo wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are they going to charge premiums for gay people because they have a higher risk of STDs? Seems fair to you?

You wouldn't charge gay people more because that isn't a choice. Do you think it's unfair that smokers pay more for life insurance?

Pretty much every smoker has higher medical bills. Labelling all gay people as STD risks is a much bigger reach?

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#257

Post by disambiguation »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #240
disambiguation wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hasn’t it always been the case that younger people vaccinate to help keep the older protected? No, polio for example. > Also, you don’t need to die of Covid to be placed in a hospital. Fewer available beds affects everyone. "Collective ownership and harm" is not an unrestricted pass for universal mandates. Everything is connected, every action you take affects someone else. Driving for example puts everyone at risk…

> Now it's time to start thinking about moving past covid No, no it is not yet. I am referring to Covid-19-Omicron: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59677070 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2021/dec/15/uk-cov... https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-big-numbers-of-coronavir... If you're not in the UK, then congratulations, you have time, days to weeks, before this comes your way.

I'm in NYC, omicron is here too.

I think you and I just fundamentally see the world differently, so I'll just cut to the chase of how I see omicron, because I'm sure you see it the exact opposite way.

From what I've learned about omicron so far, it A. transmits very fast B. has high immune escape, and C. has a low incidence of severe outcome relative to other variants.

To me this sounds like a good thing as far as ending the pandemic goes. We want a highly transmissible, benign variant, agreed?

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#258

Post by pw201 »

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #241
vlovich123 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Remains unclear" is very different from "no impact on transmission rates". Here's the follow-up paper from the same group [1] > These results suggest that the vaccine is initially effective in reducing infectiousness of breakthrough infections even with the Delta variant, and that while this protectiveness effect declines with time it can be restored, at least temporarily, with a booster vaccine. The paper you're lo…

> "Remains unclear" is very different from "no impact on transmission rates". Well, at least within households[0]: > Research reveals fully vaccinated people are just as likely to pass virus on to those they share a home with [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/28/covid-vaccinat...

The first sentence of the article is that it's about "People who are fully vaccinated against Covid yet catch the virus". If the vaccines don't lower P(transmission|infection) but do lower P(infection), then they lower P(infection & transmission) (because that's the product of those two).

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#259

Post by bananapear »

criddell wrote: post #38

At some point I wonder if health insurers will start denying claims related to the treatment of COVID infections if the person is eligible for the vaccine but has refused to get one? On TV today I saw that Kroger employees don't get sick day pay if they are off because of COVID unless they have been vaccinated (and I would assume there's a medical exemption).

BUPA (UK private health insurer) isn't covering treatment for conditions caused by the vaccine:

https://twitter.com/bupauk/status/1368841967086473216

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExeyKpEW8AEDAdg?format=jpg&name=...

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#260

Post by a45a33s »

its really interesting/disturbing that people put so much blind faith in the organizations pushing these vaccines. so many people are acting unscientifically in the "pursuit of science". science is not something where you blindly trust what the corporations and authority figures tell you.

the safety trials had no control group, the approval was based on 4 months of data, the situation that we are in now seems to suggest they dont really work very well, there certainly is no long term data about what happens when you keep reinjecting boosters over and over, lipid nanoparticles themselves are a novel technology that is not very well understood, most people are at low risk and have no need for it, the list goes on

Post reply on HN