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California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

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Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#251

Post by spurgu »

moksly wrote: post #212

I’m Danish and not at all interested in the politics of it, but there can be a case for teaching algebra late. We do it in Denmark, because it’s the subject children have the hardest time learning, and having too many of them fail too early kills their interest in math. We still teach algebra in grade 7-9, but we’ve gone through the social experiments of teaching it at different ages, and have lost entire generations…

I would say practical reasons. How would you structure those lessons? You'd need a lot more resources to be able to tailor everyone's path like that.

It would be great though. I loved going to school for the first 4 years when we were ~30 people in the whole school (spread over 1-4th graders) - the teachers were able to address individual needs. Then I went to fifth grade where were were 35 people in the class. It just went downhill from there.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#252

Post by woobar »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #64
WillPostForFood wrote: post #5

It’s the official shift from “we can lift everyone up” to “we need to hold everyone down”. It wasn’t that long ago the California was touting the success of Algebra for everyone in 8th grade.

This "single standard" to me is like outlawing adjustable seats in cars. In the UK, they start separating students into separate tracks around 8th grade. Some will excel in math and science, so give them the opportunity to really go for it and take hard classes. Others will excel in other areas. But if everyone is lumped together in the same bucket and forced into the same mold, the average student's highest level of…

There is no single US. Each state has it own program to separate students into different tracks. In mine they identified "talented kids" in 3rd grade and they have advanced math and language programs going forward. They had additional evaluations in middle and high schools. So it wasn't like all doors are closed after the 3rd grade.

Regular public schools in a pretty big district that combines both urban and suburban schools.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#253

Post by function_seven »

Eelongate wrote: post #165
bko wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This policy has nothing to do with the topic of algebra. This is code for advanced math, because algebra is typically considered advanced for < 9th grade children. Since the organizations feel ashamed that they're failing certain demographics as evidenced by being under-represented in the advanced classes, they're just scrapping the advanced classes for everyone. Truly disgraceful

> This policy has nothing to do with the topic of algebra. This is code for advanced math, because algebra is typically considered advanced for I sincerely hope you're not serious about this. I took algebra in 7th grade and I was considered a remedial student with habitually poor grades. If you're telling me I was actually 2 years advanced by present standards, then the situation in California must be deteriorating s…

When I was in 5th grade, I was put into the advanced math class. We graphed equations, learned y=mx+b, slopes, etc. All the basic concepts that are introduced in Algebra 1.

When I was in 7th grade, we were taught "what a negative number is." That entire year was a complete and utter waste. But fortunately, 8th grade offered Algebra where I could get back on track.

This was 30 years ago, in California. Public school math standards are a joke here, and apparently getting even worse.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#254

Post by tomp »

coolspot wrote: post #163
logicalmonster wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there an achievement gap for other groups such as Asian students?

No, even for Asians from poor countries and with language barrier. But we are not allowed to talk about that.

Not just Asians, even Africans (blacks), e.g. Nigerians - they even outperform local (US) whites!

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#255

Post by com2kid »

readams wrote: post #240
542458 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gifted programs do very little or nothing as far as most studies can tell. Any gains in scores are very small, and they don’t appear to make any meaningful difference in student engagement or motivation. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.3102/01623737211008919 https://www.nber.org/papers/w17089 These programs are relatively expensive, and there’s a strong argument the gifted programs should be overhauled, or that t…

Gifted programs aren't the same thing as tracking kids into more advanced math classes. A gifted program is where you take some kids aside and teach them some random extra stuff, at the end of the day they're still in the regular classes with the other kids also and don't really have a chance to go any faster.

> A gifted program is where you take some kids aside and teach them some random extra stuff, at the end of the day they're still in the regular classes with the other kids also and don't really have a chance to go any faster.

Those are modern cut rate gifted programs.

The 90s had gifted programs where students who tested well got placed into a separate cohort for core classes (English, History, Math) in Middle and High School, or were in a dedicated classroom for elementary school.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#256

Post by sokoloff »

nefitty wrote: post #159
WillPostForFood wrote: post #5

It’s the official shift from “we can lift everyone up” to “we need to hold everyone down”. It wasn’t that long ago the California was touting the success of Algebra for everyone in 8th grade.

Looking out from this moment in history, if I wanted to prepare someone for the future, STEM wouldn't be the main focus. I know it's anathema to say. In a world where computers fold proteins and predict programmer's intentions, the value of technical knowledge is showing decay. In the world we're hurtling toward, we don't need people who can recite the Pythagorean theorem. We need people who can cooperate with other…

> We need people who can cooperate with other humans, who can leverage technology to achieve their goals and who can evaluate information critically. Throw money at THOSE problems.

Sounds to me like you want some science, technology, engineering, and math curriculum.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#257

Post by primitivesuave »

spacecaps wrote: post #227
threatofrain wrote: post #121

The program is called Equitable Math and it frames current mathematics pedagogy as a mechanism by which White Supremacy is sustained.¹ Note that in a very long multi-part document on White Supremacy, there is absolutely zero mention of Asians, despite that they are somewhere between 15.5% to 17% of the state population.² Program goals includes the de-emphasis of Algebra for middle school and Calculus for high school.…

For anyone interested, I think it's probably worth actually digging into Equitable Math's "Dismantling Racism in Mathematics Instruction" [0]. I just skimmed some of it based on your link, and the majority of it just reads like "stop teaching math poorly." I was looking for some real burn-down-the-establishment stuff, but it's honestly pretty prosaic. For example: > "There is a greater focus on getting the "right" an…

Page 7 is where they completely lose me. "Students are required to “show their work” in standardized, prescribed ways" is a manifestation of white supremacy?

If you click on that item, it takes you to a page where they suggest non-standard classroom activities like "Have students create TikTok videos, silent films, or cartoons about mathematical concepts or procedures."

I'm pretty open minded about education pedagogy, but you completely lose me (and 99% of teachers) when you suggest creating TikTok videos so students can adequately express their mathematical understanding.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#258

Post by jcranmer »

Eelongate wrote: post #192
riversflow wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California requires 2 years of Math in high school. https://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/gs/hs/cefhsgradreq.asp

Good grief, how can that even work? If I had gone a full one or two years without any math class, I would have lost the habit and floundered when it came time to take a math class again. Are they deliberately setting kids up to fail in California?

Those are literally the minimum possible requirements to get a diploma anywhere in the State of California; judging from the document, school districts may impose stricter requirements.

Those are unusually lenient from what I've seen; my home school district [not in California] currently requires 4 years of English, 3 years each of math, science, and social studies, 2 each of PE and foreign language or fine arts, 1 year of economics/personal finance, and 4 electives. And apparently 1 course must be AP, IB or honors. As a matter of practice, you'd be expected to take 4 years of English, math, science, and social studies, and at least 3 of foreign language anyways (and indeed, there's an 'advanced degree' that has those requirements; it looks like 2/3 of students graduated with the 'advanced degree').

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#259

Post by geomark »

carabiner wrote: post #200
holonomically wrote: post #7

I was doing algebra and Russian math word problems in 4th grade (maybe earlier, it's been a while). What exactly is the logic of pushing back mathematical training to later grades? [1] 1: https://www.edhelper.com/geography/Russia_Math1.htm

Good for you. I met kids in 4th grade who struggled with their multiplication tables. What do you do for them?

TT Rockstars https://ttrockstars.com/ Most kids get into it.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#260

Post by dragonwriter »

readams wrote: post #240
542458 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gifted programs do very little or nothing as far as most studies can tell. Any gains in scores are very small, and they don’t appear to make any meaningful difference in student engagement or motivation. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.3102/01623737211008919 https://www.nber.org/papers/w17089 These programs are relatively expensive, and there’s a strong argument the gifted programs should be overhauled, or that t…

Gifted programs aren't the same thing as tracking kids into more advanced math classes. A gifted program is where you take some kids aside and teach them some random extra stuff, at the end of the day they're still in the regular classes with the other kids also and don't really have a chance to go any faster.

> Gifted programs aren't the same thing as tracking kids into more advanced math classes

In elementary school gifted programs are often tracking people into advanced math, reading, and other subjects all at once. Plus teaching them extra stuff.

At higher grades, if it exists at all, its often tracking them into a different school that has both more advanced and more diverse classes.

> A gifted program is where you take some kids aside and teach them some random extra stuff, at the end of the day they're still in the regular classes with the other kids also and don't really have a chance to go any faster.

I’ve heard of lots of different gifted programs, and most don't fit that description.

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