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An engineer's observations on Web3 and its possibilities

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Re: An engineer's observations on Web3 and its possibilities

#251

Not going to lie, I thought and still think that the whole Web 2.0 thing was clever marketing and window dressing on top of fairly pedestrian but useful technologies. It was actually less of seismic shock than mobile first which despite being a bigger shift didn't actually get a number. As far as I'm concerned, Web3 is beyond this. It's what happen when you let Ponzi schemers write the marketing material. I can't for…

> trying to avoid the eyes of the state Nothing wrong with that. Everyone agrees cryptography is a good thing, worldwide warrantless surveillance is bad, privacy is good. So why is it acceptable for the government to pry into people's finances? Total surveillance is already the norm there. If a blockchain is what it takes to defeat that, then so be it.

It’d be a lot cooler (ha) if we didn’t have to burn the energy of a small country for questionable-to-zero actual gains in privacy though.

Re: An engineer's observations on Web3 and its possibilities

#252
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who put their hope into blockchain and crypto currency technology are missing a fundamental point that would have _catastrophic_ consequences on social mobility, exploitation and oppression in the long term: You don't actually want a decentralized, persistent log of all transactions, especially if that also includes credit and debt. The financial market is going out of hand because since the 70's/80's it i…

You make a large assumption that people don't want a permanent log. If the system works then you do want it to be permanent. The only reason why you propose forgetting the transactions of the current system is that it is distorted by politicians. Politicians cannot distorted crypto markets in the same way they can with the USD, therefore is no need to ever forget crypto transactions

I'm saying "the system" doesn't work because it doesn't serve its purpose and on a deeper level it is inherently based on imagination.

Politicians and the financial system are not entities that can isolated from each other. The financial system is in of itself a form of trade regulation: to make rules about what costs what, who owes who, what can be traded how and so on. Finance is the bureaucracy of trade. It is failing because it shifted its purpose from regulation and quantification of value to a life of its own and has become in large parts speculative and non-proportional. Even some of the most libertarian thinkers like Adam Smith have warned us about this.

A crypto market is one such thing, but not only is it already disjoint from its purpose, which is enumerating value, credit and regulating trade. The speculative and volatile nature of crypto markets show that. But it also doesn't enable the use of a safety break - that has been used time and time again in larger history but also in smaller interactions - to repair the economy from becoming fantastical to real again. Crypto has also no alternative solution of doing that.

What happens when you don't do that for long enough is that the people will do it for you. They will at some point burn it all down. Debt and profits that are disjoint from actual value and become more so through financial mechanisms erode trust. And currently that is exactly what you can see happening since a few years. People are quitting their jobs, joining protests, unions and so on because they intuitively understand that they are being screwed.

Re: An engineer's observations on Web3 and its possibilities

#253
post #247

Is there a way to short "Web3" ?

Using web3? Deposit stablecoins, borrow crypto and sell it.

More like a broad short of the all the BS web3 thingies not specifically crypto :). But good to know there is a simple trade to short crypto

Re: An engineer's observations on Web3 and its possibilities

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> trying to avoid the eyes of the state Nothing wrong with that. Everyone agrees cryptography is a good thing, worldwide warrantless surveillance is bad, privacy is good. So why is it acceptable for the government to pry into people's finances? Total surveillance is already the norm there. If a blockchain is what it takes to defeat that, then so be it.

It’d be a lot cooler (ha) if we didn’t have to burn the energy of a small country for questionable-to-zero actual gains in privacy though.

I partially agree. Bitcoin is a failure and it's pretty sad that so much energy is being spent mining it. I wouldn't mind that same amount of energy being spent on Monero though.

It would also be nice if we could use the heat generated by computers for something instead of dissipating it all into the air. That way the energy wouldn't actually be wasted.

Re: An engineer's observations on Web3 and its possibilities

#256

Web3 requires retrofitting the web to use blockchain technologies to do what the web can mostly do already. In "Blockchains Are a Bad Idea", James Mickens gives several arguments against blockchain-based systems like Bitcoin: See his presentation here: https://youtu.be/15RTC22Z2xI 1. People have out-of-band trust relationships in real life which reduce the likelihood of malice. Bitcoin-style anonymous identities unde…

1. Existing payment systems expose your entire financial history to the service provider (e.g.: your bank, your credit card company etc.). I don't understand how people can complain about surveillance and data collection by tech companies, and then be perfectly fine with consumer finance companies doing the same thing. 2. What is legal is not what is moral. E.g., outlawing sex work, which results in SWers in even Wes…

>> 1. Existing payment systems expose your entire financial history to the service provider (e.g.: your bank, your credit card company etc.). I don't understand how people can complain about surveillance and data collection by tech companies, and then be perfectly fine with consumer finance companies doing the same thing.

Generally people have choices in how they handle their finances: you can choose which financial institutions you use and how you want to pay most of the time. If you don't want to be tracked, you can get cash and pay with cash.

However, some of the tracking can be to your benefit. Most banks and credit card companies offer some degree of fraud protection / prevention and if you have a good credit history and want to take out a loan, they will happily give you the money. It requires a real-life trust relationship where the bank / finance company is a trusted business partner and not an untrustworthy predator.

If you find the relationship with your bank or credit card provider it not to your liking, you can choose a different bank or credit card provider that offers more favorable terms.

>> 2. What is legal is not what is moral. E.g., outlawing sex work, which results in SWers in even Western countries getting kicked off traditional payment systems, or having SW forums taken down (e.g. backpage). Having a decentralized and censorship-resistant infrastructure for these essential utilities is vital, and blockchains can be a key component of that infrastructure.

I disagree here. I personally do not think that sex work is moral or 'an essential utility'. If a payment provider does not want to offer payments for illegal or immoral products or services that is their choice. Some payment providers might still be willing to, but no one can really stop cash payments.

You do have a point here though, no one can stop blockchain-based payment systems and they have been instrumental in the recent increases in malware and ransomware.

>> 3. As a cryptographer, PKC and digital signatures have thoroughly failed to provide a decentralized and secure P2P communications infrastructure. (And no, Signal doesn't count: it's fantastic, but it's run by a benevolent operator.)

PKC and digital signatures don't provide infrastructure. They provide tools to be used at endpoints. You can use freely available cryptography tools such as OpenPGP (https://www.openpgp.org/software/) to generate your own keys and securely communicate with someone else over existing communication infrastructure.

Re: An engineer's observations on Web3 and its possibilities

#258
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. If Bitcoin had not gone "to the moon", all of this would be a tiny niche, like Chaum's DigiCash was. The problem is all the junk riding Bitcoin's coattails. At some point, probably soon, the bottom will fall out of at least part of this. NFTs are already crashing. That's not too visible, because there's no "market price" across different items. But you can look at sales on OpenSea, and notice that the resale…

> Exactly. If Bitcoin had not gone "to the moon", all of this would be a tiny niche, like Chaum's DigiCash was. I don't think "if this didn't happen then this wouldn't have happened" is a real argument, it's just a statement. True for just about everything. It's possible I'm misinterpreting and you just mean it as a statement?

"If my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike"

Re: An engineer's observations on Web3 and its possibilities

#259
post #234
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When upward mobility has been stymied for generations (the US has the lowest upword mobility among Western nations, outdoing even the class-ridden Brits) and insane house prices, student loans and cost of living increases have cut all the bootstraps, people are looking for anything - anything - that offers the slimmest of opportunities, because education and hard work don't cut it any more. Hence the crypto nonsense…

The people who put their hope into blockchain and crypto currency technology are missing a fundamental point that would have _catastrophic_ consequences on social mobility, exploitation and oppression in the long term: You don't actually want a decentralized, persistent log of all transactions, especially if that also includes credit and debt. The financial market is going out of hand because since the 70's/80's it i…

The way to deal with excess debt is not to have a cranky database that loses the records. Also forgiveness seldom happens.

What does happen in reality often is inflation - government gives money to the needy (or similar) and the money being given out inflates away the debts.

Re: An engineer's observations on Web3 and its possibilities

#260
> Smart contracts are deployed once and run forever; their code cannot be changed. The software development industry has literally zero experience with such a deployment model.

Programmers for cartridge-based game systems and many other embedded devices with no connectivity have decades of experience with this.

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