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Without parental leave I might be dead

nytimes.com

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Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#251

Post by treis »

cure wrote: post #225
burntoutfire wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true. A comfortable lifestyle perhaps, but "basic" can be had on just a single average salary.

I think your frame of reference may be a bit warped. What is an 'average' salary? The median personal income in 2019 was $35,805 (cf. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N ). I think you'd be hard pressed to live on that with a family of 3+ people. And what about the 50% of people who have a personal income less than the median? edit: that stat was for 2019, not 2020, my bad

That looks like it counts everyone over 14 including students and retirees. And it's the highest it has ever been in real terms.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#252

Post by mooreds »

kingsloi wrote: post #217

I literally worked for most of my child's 8 month life, from her ICU room, I worked the morning of her 9 surgeries, I worked through the genetic diagnosis, I worked through being told my child has brain bleeds, neuroblastoma, is deaf, re-intubated, etc... if my insurance wasn't tied to my work, I would've quit in a heartbeat. I'm convinced I'll go to my grave with working that time being my biggest regret in life. I…

This is heartbreaking. I'm so sorry.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#253

Post by epivosism »

bradleyjg wrote: post #187
sofixa wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you fix those three, no parental leave is barbaric.

Is this kind of thing supposed to persuasive? You’ve presented no argument whatsoever. Is the idea that if use an emotionally laden term like “barbaric” you think it will browbeat people into falling into line with your opinion?

I think the request is fair.

Be time-idempotent; imagine if you were talking to someone from the 15th century and they were SURE they were right about their crazy opinions.

The meta-stable way to be reasonable is that as long as someone seems to be honestly asking the reasoning for your beliefs, and your principles, you should try to explain yourself, rather than just shut them down by repeating your assertion of correctness.

Otherwise, how will you find out about the likely beliefs you hold right now, which our descendants will consider insane and evil? Forcing yourself to self-introspection is a good practice. I don't expect anyone to change their mind about this, but being able to explain to others your reasoning can also clear up your own views, and help convince your adversary much more effectively than the "just repeat your position" argument style.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#254

Post by familyemta123 »

commandlinefan wrote: post #223
kingsloi wrote: post #217

I literally worked for most of my child's 8 month life, from her ICU room, I worked the morning of her 9 surgeries, I worked through the genetic diagnosis, I worked through being told my child has brain bleeds, neuroblastoma, is deaf, re-intubated, etc... if my insurance wasn't tied to my work, I would've quit in a heartbeat. I'm convinced I'll go to my grave with working that time being my biggest regret in life. I…

Did you ask for an extended leave of absence? Many employers are a lot more humane than a lot of employees give them credit for, whether they're bound by law or not.

I created a throw away for this, but during a recent family emergency, my small 100 person company decided to fire me rather than allow my request for 3 months off without pay. They could easily have supported it, and I was a good employee, but instead I heard now they've replaced me with an Eastern European contractor for cheap. So rather than help me in my time of need, after I had saved their ass from some other crappier contractors in the preceding year, they took it as a chance to cut costs. They had also just gone public and have a huge war chest from that, so it isn't like they were strapped.

I'm not going to respond to those comments, inevitability, that will say there's more to this story, because there isn't, I was a good employee and understood my job, but they just saw a replaceable body. I'm never going to dedicate more than the minimum effort to a company ever again.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#255

Post by Clubber »

tomp wrote: post #207
ajuc wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mexico has 12 weeks. And Greece has 40. And Sweden has 480 days. Poland 1 year. Switzerland 20 weeks. Ireland 26 weeks. UK 52 weeks. Canada 50 weeks. Norway 12 months. Denmark 52 weeks. France 16 weeks for mothers and 4 weeks for fathers. I can go on. There's 120 such countries in the world. BTW that leave is on top of 20-30 days of paid vacations each year and unlimited paid health leave in most of these countries…

> Also notice that some of these countries have higher or similar GDP per capita to USA. In the US, households have 10% more money than the second closest competitor (Luxembourg), and 20% more money than next closest (Germany & Switzerland). I think that's a much better comparison than GDP (which isn't necessarily connected with employment), and shows how these tradeoffs work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable…

You're looking at the mean which includes billionaire disposable income. Look at the median for a more realistic picture (scroll down 1 grid).

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#256

Post by tomp »

Clubber wrote: post #255
tomp wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also notice that some of these countries have higher or similar GDP per capita to USA. In the US, households have 10% more money than the second closest competitor (Luxembourg), and 20% more money than next closest (Germany & Switzerland). I think that's a much better comparison than GDP (which isn't necessarily connected with employment), and shows how these tradeoffs work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable…

You're looking at the mean which includes billionaire disposable income. Look at the median for a more realistic picture (scroll down 1 grid).

I doubt many billionaires have income. Although you're partially right, I'm not sure which is a better metric. Probably depends on where in the distribution you are (above or below the median).

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#257

Post by hattmall »

orangepurple wrote: post #160
lotsofpulp wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is lack of access to contraceptives and lack of women’s financial independence might be the reason poorer women have more children. My conjecture is their higher birth rates have little to do with them being poorer.

I am "poor" by choice because my wife takes care of the children in our household. Our lives are richer than those of countless lonely $ millionaires.

This is the real answer. Nothing else is going to change that. A basic lifestyle isn't that expensive and it's exponentially better than 99% of people's lives 50 years ago. Just making smart shopping decisions can literally double or more your buying power.

I really don't get the point of doing something you don't enjoy for 8-12 hours a day just so you can have expensive things.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#258

Post by conductr »

kingsloi wrote: post #217

I literally worked for most of my child's 8 month life, from her ICU room, I worked the morning of her 9 surgeries, I worked through the genetic diagnosis, I worked through being told my child has brain bleeds, neuroblastoma, is deaf, re-intubated, etc... if my insurance wasn't tied to my work, I would've quit in a heartbeat. I'm convinced I'll go to my grave with working that time being my biggest regret in life. I…

US? FMLA? Just curious if you felt you couldn't take it due to company culture or if it just didn't apply to you? Either way, a horrible experience for you I know. I’ve been fortunate to work with folks that are family friendly when things like this arise. I can’t even imagine opening my laptop while in the hospital and in that headspace.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#259

Post by mikestew »

JohnWhigham wrote: post #215
KaiserPro wrote: post #28

I really cant understand the logic of forcing women back into work after 2-4 weeks. Its just not beneficial for anyone. The mum is utterly frazzled. The employer gets half an employee back Society is conditioned to think that the only practical way to raise a baby is to give up on work/get live in care. now, to look at it from a "my mum managed, I don't want to undermine the american nuclear family" point of view: Ye…

I keep saying it: the ERA was a (successful) ruse by the elite class to further dilute and weaken the middle class dressed up with a feminist guise.

You might not have to "keep saying it" if you gave a little more context and detail as to what you're on about. That, and explain the acronym for those that are under, oh, about sixty years old.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#260

Post by celtain »

JohnWhigham wrote: post #215
KaiserPro wrote: post #28

I really cant understand the logic of forcing women back into work after 2-4 weeks. Its just not beneficial for anyone. The mum is utterly frazzled. The employer gets half an employee back Society is conditioned to think that the only practical way to raise a baby is to give up on work/get live in care. now, to look at it from a "my mum managed, I don't want to undermine the american nuclear family" point of view: Ye…

I keep saying it: the ERA was a (successful) ruse by the elite class to further dilute and weaken the middle class dressed up with a feminist guise.

You know the ERA hasn't been ratified, right?
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