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University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

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Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#251

Post by endisneigh »

denton-scratch wrote: post #113
endisneigh wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll have to see how the lawsuit pans out, but I doubt you're right here. Public institutions are in no way obligated to let their members serve as expert witnesses in their capacity as an employee. See Garcetti v. Ceballos. However nothing is stopping them from testifying against the institution in their capacity as a private citizen. This is why whistleblowing is possible. UF is saying they cannot be expert witnes…

An expert witness acts as a servant of the court, not as the agent of their employer. Naming the UoF as your employer is simply stating the truth to the court about your credentials; it doesn't mean the UoF has to take responsibility for your testimony.

I agree, but the entire point of the article is that UoF has had an agreement in place with all employees saying that they must get approval in order to serve as an expert witness to begin with.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#252

Post by R0b0t1 »

Loughla wrote: post #205
R0b0t1 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should still record anyway. Use it in the court of public opinion.

Except if the recording is illegal, it can be used, in some states, against you criminally and civilly. I was just having this conversation. You can be sued and/or jailed if you record someone without their consent in a two party consent state. Not saying it's right or wrong, but it exists and is something to think about.

The main concern (and it's not much of a concern) is that you are charged with wiretapping or the equivalent. The penalties for this are not necessarily severe. Refuse to plea and force a trial.

If the recording is not tampered with it's unlikely a civil case will get anywhere.

If someone is actually a rapist and got off on a technicality it's your moral imperative to do something, no? Stand up to unjust laws. Evil prospers because idiots like you do nothing.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#253

Post by rayiner »

RickJWagner wrote: post #222
president wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, does anyone have any insight into how we got into this mess? It seems like the past few years has seen a whirlwind of anti-democratic rule at almost every level of government - state, local, and federal.

IMHO, it's been an escalation of tit-for-tat from both sides of the aisle. News sources, 'Community organizers', corporate activists, religious leaders etc. have all been increasingly brazen as they take increasingly polarized positions to counter actions from the other side. What's missing is common decency and sympathy for the other person's point of view. We won't find it by clinging to our own political party or…

Exactly. It's tit-for-tat. Moderate Democrats won't push back against the "community organizers" when they push highly questionable practices such as ballot harvesting or allowing ballots to be counted that arrive days after election day. Moderate Democrats also never pushed back on two decades of claims about election fraud and stolen elections from the likes of people like Terry McAuliffe and Stacey Abrams: https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/10/terry-mcauliffe-sprea...

That, in turn, has destroyed trust. Now, moderate Republicans won't push back against Trump's outrageous claims of voter fraud and stolen elections. Nobody trusts each other to act in good faith and do the right thing.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#254

Post by supperburg »

munificent wrote: post #227
supperburg wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pick a random 18 year old and see if they can point to the country of Argentina on a map. The populace can read but not much else.

...and before widespread public education, many of them couldn't even read.

Between then and now they were educated well and the United States was the best in the world in education. You fool.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#255

Post by larkost »

RickJWagner wrote: post #225
alistairSH wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GOP has the majority of state governors. GOP has the majority of state legislatures. Both of the above are currently drawing Congressional districts based on the latest census data. Both of the above are currently rolling out voting rules that are nominally about preventing fraud (of which there is zero evidence of anything widespread) but will impact the ability of people to vote.

Conservative voter here. I'll gladly trade you the state-level advantages held by the GOP for the national media machine controlled by the Dems. I think the media is the most powerful over the long haul.

I know that a lot of conservative news outlets have been repeating this over and over, but the facts just simply don't support this statement.

The largest TV news organization by viewership is Fox News, and has been for a long time. Fox News was founded to give conservative voices a bigger platform. So it was founded to be a right-leaning (biased) platform.

But that does not make everything to the political left of Fox News left-leaning. And if you start to look at talk-radio listenership then the numbers lean hugely to the right, and often far to the right. The left-wing equivalents are tiny. People who lean to the left tend to gravitate towards centrist media like NPR News, the New York Times, and the Wall Street Journal.

Again, I know that those are often painted as being left-leaning in the conservative media, but they are starting to paint Fox News the same way, and their politics have been tending right for a decade now.

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#256

Post by alistairSH »

justaman wrote: post #212
ceejayoz wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gerrrymandering indeed has a long history, and it's a bit like nukes - if the other side is already using them, it's hard to hold off on your side. In 2018, North Carolina saw 50% of the vote go to Republicans, but they received 77% of the Congressional seats. A couple rounds of that is a recipe for a permanent minority for the other party.

Should the region/counties that have a smaller population but different work forces or geographical makeup not have representation? Population alone cannot dictate the house of representatives.

Why should empty land get a vote? Why should the majority of the populace be beholden to an even-dwindling minority?

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#257

Post by davidrupp »

dahart wrote: post #47
endisneigh wrote: post #16

this doesn't sound like a big deal. UF is saying that professors cannot both receive compensation for your testimony and testify as a member of the university. in other words, they can testify for free, or they cannot use their the fact that they're UF professors as part of their credentials without prior approval, or do anything that's a "conflict of interest" as defined by UF themselves. the article itself admits t…

> UF is saying that professors cannot both receive compensation for your testimony and testify as a member of the university No, you left out the only important part here - that the testimony is considered “adverse to the university’s interests.” > in other words, they can testify for free No, they were denied permission to testify. They are not allowed to accept the job pro bono, where did you get that idea?

https://www.gainesville.com/story/news/education/campus/2021...

"Hessy Fernandez, UF director of issues management and crisis communications, told the Gainesville Sun in a text message Sunday the university views the professors' request to do outside work for the plaintiffs in the lawsuit as harmful to the university's interests. "However, to be clear," she stated, "if the professors wish to do so pro bono on their own time without using university resources, they would be free to do so."

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#258

Post by brightball »

ninjinxo wrote: post #170
lotsofpulp wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cannot prove it unless the victim was in a state that allows one party consent audio recording and was recording audio. Although Florida is the only southern state that requires all party consent for recording audio, and I presume the previous poster was talking about Texas. Smartphones have solved the recording audio problem, so presumably it would have been possible.

Aren't there usually provisions to override requiring all party consent, if it becomes reasonably necessary as criminal (not civil) evidence or for your own legal/physical protection? Edit: I looked into it, nope, Florida is utterly insane - a child didn't get consent to record their rapist soliciting/threatening them, so the evidence was denied; On December 11, 2014, the Florida Supreme Court held in McDade v. State…

Isn’t California’s version this what was used in the Planned Parenthood recordings?

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/29/521919322...

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#259

Post by osense »

xyzzy21 wrote: post #237
Loughla wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except if the recording is illegal, it can be used, in some states, against you criminally and civilly. I was just having this conversation. You can be sued and/or jailed if you record someone without their consent in a two party consent state. Not saying it's right or wrong, but it exists and is something to think about.

Again, sure technically, but it also Streisands everything about it. The cost-benefit for prosecutors and the other party isn't a slam dunk! Personally I'd absolutely do it and take the gamble. But I'm risk-thriving (hence started several companies, enjoy international travel, etc.)

Great, so instead of being able to count on the justice system we're basicall back to mob justice?

Re: University of Florida bars professors from testifying in a voting rights case

#260

Post by bgorman »

s5300 wrote: post #152
bgorman wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there is zero evidence of Voter fraud. States don’t even check for dead voters or voters who moved out of state. Diebold designs black box systems that aren’t audited by hackers. Saying there is no evidence of voter fraud is like refusing to get an MRI and saying there is no evidence of cancer.

Not sure what you're talking about, there was definitely evidence of voter fraud. Not on a large scale, but still voter fraud. It just happened to be from the party that complains about voter fraud non-stop, ironically projection, and gets zero media coverage. In the event it does get media coverage, it's typically presented in skewed or twisted way. For example, an Arizona audit found 99 non-counted votes for the cu…

Do you have any direct refutations to my allegations? Do you have proof states are auditing for dead voters for example? I am willing to change my opinion if there is evidence to suggest credible voter fraud audits happen, but so far I have not been able to find any.
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