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Half a million South Korean workers walk off jobs in general strike

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Re: Half a million South Korean workers walk off jobs in general strike

#251
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It creates real jobs and wealth. A friend of mine has 200 people employed in his family office.

"Real jobs and wealth" ... imagine putting them to work into something truly useful and creative, rather than a group of beck and call people.

"putting them to work" - what are you talking about? They are choosing jobs.

Re: Half a million South Korean workers walk off jobs in general strike

#252
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Officials are not democratically elected.

Mine is. Sorry if you're living in North Korea. I'm rooting for your revolution.

You vote for all the officials that write your legislation and bylaws, and administrate them? In my country we just vote for the people who take the credit/blame for the work a relatively static administrative system does.

Re: Half a million South Korean workers walk off jobs in general strike

#253

So less than 1% South Korean population, that doesn't strike me as very general strike. Also 0.5M (1.8%) out of 28M economically active population doesn't sound much bigger. 98% SoKo workers DGAF

2% is huge for a first strike. Absolutely huge. You only need around 3% to shut down an economy.

except only 0.06% participated in the end

Re: Half a million South Korean workers walk off jobs in general strike

#254
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Real jobs and wealth" ... imagine putting them to work into something truly useful and creative, rather than a group of beck and call people.

"putting them to work" - what are you talking about? They are choosing jobs.

Im guessing that He is talking about "having job" being a poor abstraction for value creation from point of view of whole society. Its like triple A rating for CDOs backed by subprime morgages. On the surface it seems good but if You look close enough You will see only bullshit and wishful thinking.

Re: Half a million South Korean workers walk off jobs in general strike

#255
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"putting them to work" - what are you talking about? They are choosing jobs.

Im guessing that He is talking about "having job" being a poor abstraction for value creation from point of view of whole society. Its like triple A rating for CDOs backed by subprime morgages. On the surface it seems good but if You look close enough You will see only bullshit and wishful thinking.

I don't think your comparison holds. There is not whole society acting in concert, nor even in agreement about what is valuable. There are just individuals, some of whom band together into companies and other organisations, all with different priorities.

Re: Half a million South Korean workers walk off jobs in general strike

#256
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im guessing that He is talking about "having job" being a poor abstraction for value creation from point of view of whole society. Its like triple A rating for CDOs backed by subprime morgages. On the surface it seems good but if You look close enough You will see only bullshit and wishful thinking.

I don't think your comparison holds. There is not whole society acting in concert, nor even in agreement about what is valuable. There are just individuals, some of whom band together into companies and other organisations, all with different priorities.

I believe that throughout history few golden rules emerged (most of them boil down to "do as You would be done") which keeps our societies more or less stable (we, or rather some of us, are still here, dont we?). Even those who abhore this rules most of the time keeps it to themselves. But if we as a society give individuals too much power then some of them will try to impose their own random ideas and values on us. This was happening with kings and feudal lords and this is happening now with some (if not all) of capitalistic roulette winners.

Re: Half a million South Korean workers walk off jobs in general strike

#257
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think your comparison holds. There is not whole society acting in concert, nor even in agreement about what is valuable. There are just individuals, some of whom band together into companies and other organisations, all with different priorities.

I believe that throughout history few golden rules emerged (most of them boil down to "do as You would be done") which keeps our societies more or less stable (we, or rather some of us, are still here, dont we?). Even those who abhore this rules most of the time keeps it to themselves. But if we as a society give individuals too much power then some of them will try to impose their own random ideas and values on us.…

Exactly. Thank you. Who is really doing the "choosing" here.

Re: Half a million South Korean workers walk off jobs in general strike

#258
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you? Do you really think you can magically turn raw materials + work needed to build a super yacht into something of global consequence ? Or a Pollock painting will magically turn into a 1000 homes? Or that 1% consumes significantly more food? Most ultra-rich sh*t is immaterial to struggles of regular people. Even if 1%ers consumes extra 300 square meters of real eastate if you divide it across the 99% you will ge…

I do! But I'm more thinking about the catering companies. And the parties. You know, stuff like that. The way that hundreds or thousands of hours of human lives swirl about their whims. Also, do you really think so little of boat-builders that you don't think they'd turn their hand to something else than building yatchs, that would be good and profitable for all involved?

"The way that hundreds or thousands of hours of human lives swirl about their whims" and many other little quotes in the thread betray the real motivation here. There are many more industries/groups of people that "waste" (under some moralistic definition I would disagree with, but it's a separate discussion) less per capita, but more in aggregate. E.g. most air travel. Or really any large entertainment-related industry (I love video games, but is there really nothing more productive the game developers and players could be doing?)

What is really going on is good ol' envy. Historically- primitive egalitarianism, as rational and helpful for building a good society as other aspects the social structure of clans and tribes.

This usually happens in practice, too; but for a large fraction (and maybe a large majority) of leftists it's also the poorly hidden goal - "virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries"

Re: Half a million South Korean workers walk off jobs in general strike

#259
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think your comparison holds. There is not whole society acting in concert, nor even in agreement about what is valuable. There are just individuals, some of whom band together into companies and other organisations, all with different priorities.

I believe that throughout history few golden rules emerged (most of them boil down to "do as You would be done") which keeps our societies more or less stable (we, or rather some of us, are still here, dont we?). Even those who abhore this rules most of the time keeps it to themselves. But if we as a society give individuals too much power then some of them will try to impose their own random ideas and values on us.…

We're not giving power as a a society. We are rewarding people through a system who create value in that system.

If I can sell a billion people a widget for $2 that cost me $1 to make and ship, then I become a rich person without "society" being involved or "giving" anything.

The people who have generally perpetrated tragedies have been tied to government rather than commerce. Your examples are all governments or equivalent, and this is where your final analogy is inadequate, I think. The power balance is ultimately that any government at any time can ban any company.

Re: Half a million South Korean workers walk off jobs in general strike

#260
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>although I have no idea whether it would be world war 3 or a utopia I suspect it would look more like the current economic craziness. The vast majority of the newly-wealthy would spend all of their new-found money on stupid shit and within 2 years a new upper-class will have formed. Maybe the members of the hierarchy gets shuffled around a bit, but the system itself will find a way back.

You sure about that? It's giving roughly $1000USD worth of shares to people in countries like Somalia, with a GNI per capita of $310USD, e.g. probably about 3x the average yearly wage over there. It's also only a 20% dilution, so it's not like the existing upper class would go anywhere.

If you give someone $1000 worth of shares then they have nothing, because who would buy those shares when you might confiscate them again? Shares aren't worth anything in a world of confiscation.
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