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Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

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Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#251

Post by schrijver »

BurningFrog wrote: post #160
bombcar wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even famously “mass transit unfriendly” cities can be fit for a car-free lifestyle if you work at it. But I suspect a huge part of it is visiting Europe or Asia as a tourist and enjoying being without a car. But they didn’t actually live there.

> I suspect a huge part of it is visiting Europe or Asia as a tourist and enjoying being without a car. Agreed. As a tourist you also tend to visit the historic center of capital cities, which have by far the best public transport and fanciest architecture. Plus you're on vacation and having fun. When you live there and walk to your commuter train a gray november morning, it's a very different experience.

Having taken commuter trains on gray November Euro-mornings, I still prefer them to cars for commuting. Sitting in a traffic jam on a gray November Euro-morning is more depressing to me. But you’re right, I live in the center of a city. I can get by without a car just fine. On the country side this is not really an option. Whether the suburbs are well connected depends on where you are. In the end, plenty of people still commute by car, it’s just that there’s a sizeable proportion that doesn’t and it changes the feel of public space (and your own sense of options).

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#252

Post by pharmakom »

randycupertino wrote: post #133
mc32 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like some suburbs. However, not far from downtown San Jose, within the city limits, there is some interesting tract housing developments: they have soundwall like structures surrounding these neighborhoods that are built like a maze. Once in it can be hard to find your way out without GPS to one of the few entrances/exits. So that’s in a city, not even the maligned suburbs!

I think some of the walls like that might even be for "traffic dampening" ie- so people don't cut through the neighborhoods to get somewhere else.

This is correct. Where this often goes wrong is that the planners don’t allow pedestrians and cyclists to take shortcuts, making driving the faster option for even short trips.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#253

Post by philwelch »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #39

Wow, what? IMO this article is way off the mark. Regulation is not preventing beautiful homes. There are three things probably most detracting from neighborhood beauty in America are: a lack of regulations, capitalism and materialism. All the places he lists as beautiful, especially in Europe have some of the most regulations regarding what you can build. A community design review, where a council literally has input…

> All the places he lists as beautiful, especially in Europe have some of the most regulations regarding what you can build. A community design review, where a council literally has input upon the visual design of your building is almost unheard of in America but is common in European countries. The closest you get in America is some CCNRs saying you can't have a metal roof or the like. Parts of Switzerland literally require you to build a frame which represents the shape of the house you want to build so community members can walk by for some weeks and see how it affects the neighborhood skyline.

I can’t tell you what’s more revolting to me—the idea of a bunch of neighborhood busybodies having that amount of power, or the fact the busybodies themselves are shameless enough to participate in this nonsense.

You know what neighborhood I want to live in? A neighborhood as far away as possible from those types of busybodies. Maybe somewhere across a vast ocean on the other side of the world, where people have come up with handy expressions like “it’s a free country” and “mind your own business” that you can use if some obnoxious busybody shows up to complain that they don’t like the architecture of your house.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#254

Post by philwelch »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #89
philwelch wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“How dare people build houses for themselves to live in and not for me to look at !?”

That's a clever twist of phrasing. You could just as easily have said "How dare people build houses for themselves instead of thinking about all the other people that have to look at them?" Clearly, there's some tension between these two goals, and the balance shifts back and forth over time.

If somebody doesn’t like the look of my house, they are more than welcome to get off my lawn.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#255

Post by ninjin »

0x0nyandesu wrote: post #245
ninjin wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we are talking past each other, but I am not so sure you “see” the causation the way it probably is (I am reluctant to call myself an authority even after nearly a decade living in Japan, so take my perspectives with a grain of salt). “Western” societies apply corrections the way you seem to ascribe them to Japan: A strong arm and stern reminder. In Japan, it is instead “soft” and more akin to the stern look yo…

I spent a month in Japan. Most Japanese people live closer to how Americans live. Low density suburbs and very low density cities. Even in Tokyo you can purchase a small single family home in the suburbs with a driveway for what would be considered a very cheap price by American standards. You would take a 30-45 minute train into Tokyo. They also sound proof the nice condos in downtown really well and you can afford…

From what I can tell, this discussion is drifting beyond what I originally disagreed with in terms of what you wrote: That there is a strong correlation between the effectiveness of policing and what you consider to be desirable properties of Japanese society. Your latest response instead seems to focus on Japanese zoning, population density, etc. Which, while I certainly understand enough to discuss, is not something I introduced into our discussion and I also do not see in your response above how you relate it to our original discussion point either.

I usually only monitor posts for a few hours after I make them, but before I “move on”, you wrote: “And that's how most Japanese live. Don't get it twisted”. That is not a particularly friendly way to respond to a person, especially as I can not see how I anywhere have even hinted towards a suggestion that all Japanese live “on top” of each other. Perhaps you thought my point about “knowing your neighbours” was about privacy? I can assure you that it was not the case (which hopefully becomes apparent if you reread it in that light) and that what I wrote about Japanese society (in my experience) is equally applicable to the large cities and out “in the country”. If you want to dig further into this on your own with me “gone”, there is plenty of reading about “wa” which is pretty much what I describe. Although I fully admit that seeing the implications and complexity of the concept took me many years.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#256

Post by mobilewatch7 »

r_klancer wrote: post #187
tortarga wrote: post #63

As the article hinted at the simple answer is Car Dependency. Suburbs are regulated and built to accommodate cars now and not people. The topic is explored thouroughly on the 'Not Just Bikes' youtube channel. https://www.youtube.com/c/NotJustBikes which uses information from urban planning group 'Strong Towns' https://www.strongtowns.org/ .

It's interesting to note that Hacker News really loves Strong Towns. I chatted with Chuck Marohn (founder and face of Strong Towns) once at an event a couple years ago, and they're quite aware that they get a lot of traffic from HN.

The strong town movement and its affiliated planning companies ruined my community. A lot of the mixed use re zoning is a pretext for opening up rural areas for heavy industry.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#258

Post by yodelshady »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #145
xibalba wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is not faster to way to discredit oneself than to offer a pat, single variable explanation. As others point out, Americans like and want to transport themselves by car. Let's accept this, work with it, and build around it instead of lusting after a minority defined Utopia.

Well said. Another angle is the race angle. Most people advocating for lesser cars are young, healthy, rich and white. Healthy enough to not use cars and rich enough to live near work. https://theconversation.com/the-unbearable-whiteness-of-cycl... The group that talks about systemic racism is perpetuating it.

That is an incredibly poor take on top of a serious allegation, and sorry-not-sorry, it's clear you don't really care about poverty, racial disparities or ill health.

It takes very little empathy to realise that driving a car is a huge technical barrier compared to a wheelchair/scooter/just walking slower. There is no reason you need to be healthy to avoid car use... except one. That motorists will kill you if you don't quickly get of out their way. I've seen large parts of my local area become completely inaccessible to the less-abled because of fast roads, so can it with the "I'm thinking or the sick!". You're not.

Or to just go look at which cities are not color-coded into mansions and slums, and notice those cities are ones where the poor do not need to maintain their own expensive machinery for basic tasks. Because ... again, I don't believe I need to explain that. It's a deliberate choice you're making to not understand it.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#259

Post by blitzar »

jppope wrote: post #127
throwawaysea wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often see urbanists and young people fantasize about life in car free mega cities. Having lived that life for years I can’t imagine why. A lot of cities that are beautiful and attractive also have room for cars. I would even argue it is a big part of what makes those cities attractive. There’s no substitute for the point to point on demand fast transportation that cars offer. In cities that aren’t overbuilt, it mak…

> "There’s no substitute for the point to point on demand fast transportation that cars offer." Very few American cities actually offers FAST point to point transit via automobiles. 50 years ago, it was probably realistic, but now automobile traffic in most American cities makes quick transportation anywhere unrealistic.

Average speed in central london is 7mph.

To be fair, cars are on demand, unlike tube where waiting times can reach an outrageous 5 minutes.

Re: Why can't we build nice neighborhoods anymore?

#260

Post by nottorp »

inglor_cz wrote: post #246
jppope wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may or may not be true, and it doesn't matter because single use zoning in most American cities makes it illegal to build walkable cities. It's pretty hard to establish what Americans prefer when the alternative what they have isn't allowed.

Why should a neighbourhood consisting of single family homes not be walkable? This is such a neighbourhood from the early 1920s not too far from where I grew up. Take a stroll through it with Street View. It is perfectly walkable. https://goo.gl/maps/kKqhtNbKDy6oycSi9 The lots are smallish compared to the American standard, though. This is a crowded continent.

It's not a single use zone if stores are allowed in it. The OP means that you need a car to get anything you need because the nearest store is 2 hours of walking away.
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