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Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

drive.com.au

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Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#251

Post by 10u152 »

ostenning wrote: post #83
thomasfl wrote: post #14

There's a huge price difference between electric cars and gas fueled cars here in Norway. Gas fueled car buyers have to pay both 25 percent VAT and an additional tax on purchase. Buyers don't have to pay neither of those taxes if they buy an electric car. The singer of the group A-ha, Morten Harket, bought an electrical car in 1989 and refused to pay road tolls and ignored all the subsequent fines. That got a lot of…

Meanwhile in Australia: electric cars are getting taxed more to support the aging oil infrastructure

They need to get taxed somehow (they still use public roads after all). Just build it in to registration costs. Yearly inspection takes the odometer, charge based off km at registration time. No need to over complicate it.

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#252

Post by adamjb »

10u152 wrote: post #251
ostenning wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile in Australia: electric cars are getting taxed more to support the aging oil infrastructure

They need to get taxed somehow (they still use public roads after all). Just build it in to registration costs. Yearly inspection takes the odometer, charge based off km at registration time. No need to over complicate it.

That's exactly what they're (planning on) implementing at a rate of 2.5 cents/km

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#253

Post by 10u152 »

adamjb wrote: post #252
10u152 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need to get taxed somehow (they still use public roads after all). Just build it in to registration costs. Yearly inspection takes the odometer, charge based off km at registration time. No need to over complicate it.

That's exactly what they're (planning on) implementing at a rate of 2.5 cents/km

Interesting - I haven’t read that. I wonder how it will work for PHEVs

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#254

Post by Nasrudith »

LadyCailin wrote: post #151
plantain wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes are a form of punishment, they're a tool to discourage certain behaviours relative to others. Whether roads are funded by road taxes or primary school fees doesn't matter - if we want to promote a behaviour we subsidize it; if we want to discourage it, we tax it. Whether and how the books balance in the background isn't relevant.

Oh my god, no they aren’t. Taxes are a tool for society to function. They can be used to discourage things, sure, but they are not a punishment in most cases. Do you consider paying for your meal at a restaurant a punishment? Give me a break.

Then why are you not charged for napkins at a resturant? Regardless of need how the fees and taxes are distributed does lead to an effective discouragement - which is synonymous with punishment. It doesn't need an authority to impose them. The punishment for not unzipping your fly when peeing at a urinal is peeing your pants.

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#255

Post by h0nd »

fy20 wrote: post #206
anonporridge wrote: post #66

It will be interesting if there comes a point where ICE vehicles are such a small minority of all vehicles, that supporting infrastructure (petrol stations, traditional mechanics, oil change services, etc) starts to collapse and disappear. There may still be some infrastructure for special use cases like long haul trucking or industrial vehicles, but it might become untenable for the average consumer to own an ICE ve…

Well it will happen eventually if countries go 100% electric, but I doubt it will affect the average consumer for a long time. Fuel stations make most of their profits from non-fuel items (in my country, fuel stations sell some of the best coffee), and people will still need those when commuting or travelling. In Norway some fuel stations have started to convert pumps to EV chargers [0], however there isn't really mu…

In my country fuel stations are very popular as (apart from train stations) this is the only place where the shops are allowed to stay open after regular business hours and sundays.

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#256

Post by tokamak-teapot »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #15
tuatoru wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway is wealthy thanks to selling fossil fuels. Norwegians feel guilty about that, but not guilty enough to stop selling them. This is essentially performative environmentalism from them. Still, it will help other countries by throwing up unforeseen problems in all-electric ground transportation, and some solutions.

I don't think it's a country of virtue signallers as you think, just people who like to get the best bang for their buck. And gas cars as well as fuel get taxed so much, that buying electric makes sense for them. Who would've thunk, economic incentives help!? Sadly in many other places the deciding economic incentives are the ones the politicians get from the oil and ICE car industry.

You seem to be disregarding the possibility that Norwegians care about the environmental impact of fossil fuels. Do you not consider this likely?

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#257

Post by njovin »

feifan wrote: post #159
no_butterscotch wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow really? I have a Tesla in CA and am only familiar with the electric vehicle credit (not sure what it is, I haven't looked into it) and the "you get to use carpool lanes" rule for EVs. Otherwise, I'm not familiar with extra taxes :(

IIRC, renewing a Tesla registration is $6xx/year whereas renewing a gas car's registration is $1xx/year

California's vehicle registration fee factors in several things, the most influential (I think) being price, which is probably why Tesla registration is higher than most gas cars. I've seen $500+ registration fees on ICE trucks.

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#258

Post by thinkcontext »

fy20 wrote: post #206
anonporridge wrote: post #66

It will be interesting if there comes a point where ICE vehicles are such a small minority of all vehicles, that supporting infrastructure (petrol stations, traditional mechanics, oil change services, etc) starts to collapse and disappear. There may still be some infrastructure for special use cases like long haul trucking or industrial vehicles, but it might become untenable for the average consumer to own an ICE ve…

Well it will happen eventually if countries go 100% electric, but I doubt it will affect the average consumer for a long time. Fuel stations make most of their profits from non-fuel items (in my country, fuel stations sell some of the best coffee), and people will still need those when commuting or travelling. In Norway some fuel stations have started to convert pumps to EV chargers [0], however there isn't really mu…

I'm not sure the traditional gas station format will make sense long term. Charging an EV takes longer than an ICE vehicle, what are people supposed to do with an extra half hour at a gas station? I think people are more likely to want to charge at a grocery store or restaurant.

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#259

Post by thinkcontext »

takk309 wrote: post #51
WalterBright wrote: post #5

20% of Norway's GDP comes from pumping oil out of the ground and selling it for others to burn. If they were really green that would stop.

How much oil is needed to produce a single electric vehicle? What I am getting at is we will need oil extraction for a long time. While we can move away from burning it for heat, we still need it for the production of most plastics. This doesn't even begin to touch on oil's use in the extraction process of all the other metals used in car production. We also need oil for road building. I don't see that changing anyti…

> How much oil is needed to produce a single electric vehicle?

And wood energy was used to jumpstart the fossil fuel energy age. There was a transition period before fossil fuel energy became the dominant way to extract more fossil fuels. Now wood for energy is economically negligible in advanced economies.

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#260

Post by thinkcontext »

ars wrote: post #111
r00fus wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway has a sovereign wealth fund (valuation: 1.4T in USD) that is setup specifically for this eventuality. Many large oil exporting countries know the good times won't last, and are planning for it.

> Norway has a sovereign wealth fund (valuation: 1.4T in USD) that is setup specifically for this eventuality. That's not much - $25K per person over 10 years, and with an average income of $70K per person, and something like half of their economy is energy (most if not all social programs are funded from energy production). If oil were to stop tomorrow, they'd have around 10 years before the money runs out. (Maybe a…

Its an endowment, they should be only spending a portion of the earnings not the principle. That way it will last in perpetuity instead of 10 years.
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