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Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

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Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#251
If you go to here to the Internet Archive https://archive.org/details/boysbookofindust00noyc and view or download the book titled The boy's book of industrial information by Elisha Noyce published in 1858 — note I said 1858 - 163 years ago — and then turn to (book page 58, not the PDF #) then on the topic of WHITE LEAD you'll read this amazing statement:

"White lead is a very poisonous substance, and produces the disease called painters' colic, when taken into the system in minute quantities and for a long time, so that all who have much to do with this dangerous substance, as house-painters and artists, should be extremely careful that their hands are well washed frequently, and especially before going to meals. Cisterns of lead, used for containing water, very soon become coated inside with a thin flim (sic) of sulphate of lead, this prevents the water from acting further on the lead, and the water from such cisterns is never found to be poisonous; but, if distilled water were used, it would act rapidly on the lead, corroding it, and causing a deposit in the water of white lead, which would render such water dangerous in the extreme."

Remember this book was written for the information of boys; it wasn't in a new learned research paper from the Royal Society, etc. which means that 163 years ago it was very common knowledge that lead was very toxic. So how the fuck did we get to the point where we let the likes of Thomas Midgley Jr. and Big Industry introduce tetraethyllead - leaded gasoline ca 1923 and then pollute the world for another 70 or so years? Why weren't there more stringent regulations on white lead in paints, especially during its removal (somewhat like the asbestos regulations of today)? I acknowledge that avoiding lead in paint until about the mid 20th Century would have been difficult but at least some attempt to reduce its spread much earlier than when it was removed from paint should have been undertaken.

This is the same old story with industry doing its thing and to hell with the consequences. Lead was known to be dangerous in Roman times, so was mercury and asbestos and some 2000 years later we're still cursed with the mismanagement of these dangerous substance. Moreover, it doesn't stop there, we knew cigarettes and tobacco were dangerous long before the 1950s and see the fight we had over that. ...And there are many more such examples without even having to look for them.

It's a never-ending battle with Big Industry, Monsanto, Bayer, etc, etc. I'm beginning to think it'll never end whilst we have the current political mindset.

BTW, there's some truth to the 'cisterns of lead' being less poisonous although that wouldn't be tolerated these days. Not that long ago I've stayed in houses with lead water pipes. As far as I know they've not been changed, so until recently it was a common practice to use lead for water distribution. However, note carefully Noyce's caveat about the type of water that should be stored within them.

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#252
post #203

A lady named Tamara Rubin has spent years testing household products and other commonly handled objects for lead. She uses an XRF tester, which is the gold standard for high accuracy lead testing. She has thousands of items listed, from dishes to door hardware to childrens toys, and a lot of these will put a family at high risk of lead poisoning. There's some woo-y stuff on her website, but her XRF data is a gold min…

So I went into a big rabbithole of writing up a long email to my family warning them about specific plates and so on. Then I paused -- was any of this real? I looked up on Snopes -- they didn't seem to be too convinced that she's legit[0]. Some more googling didn't seem to show any reputable site repeating her claims. It's hard to tell if any of this is true or not. (Especially since there's a difference between a _c…

Don't forget to warn them about the uranium plates

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#253
post #75

The important question is how many kids have 5 micrograms of lead per decaliter of blood [0]. This is the reference blood lead level and much more useful for tracking progress (or decline). I’m surprised that the article sticks with the “no lead is good” rather than the public health level. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/prevention/blood-lead-levels.h...

You're close here, but you're not quite right.

The link that you posted mentions 5 migrograms per deciliter of blood, while your post mentions 5 micrograms per decaliter of blood. This is a 100 fold misstatement.

A deciliter of blood is 1/10 of a liter, while a decaliter is 10 liters. For reference, I believe that the average adult male has roughly 10L of blood, so 5 micrograms per decaliter would be 5 micrograms in the body of an adult, whereas 5 micrograms per deciliter would be probably something like 5 micrograms in a baby. I don't necessarily trust this site (https://www.healthline.com/health/how-much-blood-in-human-bo...), but it says that babies have ~75 mL (0.075L, or 0.75dL) while the average adult has 4500 - 5700 mL of blood (4.5-5.7L, or 45-57dL, or 0.45-0.57DL).

I'm also surprised that the article sticks with their "no lead is good" posture.

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"lead-free glass" I assume glass is just lead-free by default and I don't need to go out looking for a special lead-free version of glassware, right?

Crystal ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_glass ) does contain lead, but apparently "crystal glass" does not. So, by default, "glass" is indeed lead-free, unless you're talking about some fancy older glassware.

Some older ceramics have lead too (mugs, crocks). I think some coming from China in more recent years have tested positive (plus toys and more).

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#255
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you're overthinking this a bit. Kids chew on and swallow all kinds of weird shit. I've seen young kids chew the paint off whole sets of pencils. Babies put literally everything they can in their mouth. I've watched children lick window sills for fucks sake. If there's lead glaze on the eating surface of a plate or bowl, and if you know it's mobile, as it was on my dishes, then it's a safe assumption th…

I have kids, and I also definitely agree that it's better if lead is not in there at all. The whole lead in gasoline story is ridiculous and traumatizing. I'm just not sold on the idea of testing/researching products and getting rid of them based on what I've learned these last 10 minutes. It seems to me that it would be multiple orders of magnitude more important to test your vegetables if you are a lead-minimizer?…

I generally agree. Anything you are consuming that contains lead is much more concerning than food contacting a dish with a low amount of lead for a short amount of time (implying minimal to negligible transfer).

Honestly, the amount of lead in dishes and crystal (when it even contains it) is low. If you keep the contact time with the food low and there's no cracks/chips/dust, then you're fine. As an example, generally drinking from crystal is fine, but leaving a drink in a crystal decanter is not.

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#257
post #16

My wife and I are particularly concerned about lead, especially since there is no way to really cure lead poisoning. Any house built before the 1980s could have lead in it, with varying degrees of concern for children. Around the home here is what we found are sources of lead to worry about (or not): - Paint: lead was banned in paint in 1979, but lead was used less and less even before the cutoff date. Paint is espec…

Don't forget the soil in your yard, even if the house was built yesterday the soil could still have lead contamination from leaded gasoline.

I found that my backyard soil has very low lead levels from the UMass Soil & Plant Nutrient Testing Laboratory. You can test your soil lead levels, along with nutrient contents of your soil as it pertains to the types of plants you have by sending a sample and $20 to UMass: https://ag.umass.edu/services/soil-plant-nutrient-testing-la...

I just found that the University of New Hampshire offers a similar test with an additional heavy metals package available which covers cadmium, chromium, copper, lead, nickel & zinc: https://extension.unh.edu/resource/soil-testing-forms

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I want to test things in my household should I even bother with XRF testing or do you think LeadCheck is sufficient?

I rely almost entirely on the swabs for testing things around the house, because they're what I have, and they tell you whether lead is actually transferable from a surface, versus being merely present in the material. But if I had an XRF tester I would use it all the time. The swabs are relatively slow, especially the way I use them, and they don't work at all for some things. For example, a swab won't tell you if t…

Was his first name Nate?

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#259
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rely almost entirely on the swabs for testing things around the house, because they're what I have, and they tell you whether lead is actually transferable from a surface, versus being merely present in the material. But if I had an XRF tester I would use it all the time. The swabs are relatively slow, especially the way I use them, and they don't work at all for some things. For example, a swab won't tell you if t…

Was his first name Nate?

Yes! It was actually the lady's former supervisor who tested my dishes back then. She's since moved on, but the new lady told me that neither her boss nor anyone else in the health department had thought to look at dishes. I remember her being shocked and somewhat confused when she saw the XRF reading, and when the swab turned bright red she said, "oh my".

I felt like I was going to throw up, knowing that I'd been feeding my kids off those dishes for years. I've had to really work at putting that burden down and moving on. I never had my kids blood tested, and they seem fine, but I've love it if my experience helps someone else avoid the danger.

Re: Half of American kids have lead in their blood, doctors say

#260
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was his first name Nate?

Yes! It was actually the lady's former supervisor who tested my dishes back then. She's since moved on, but the new lady told me that neither her boss nor anyone else in the health department had thought to look at dishes. I remember her being shocked and somewhat confused when she saw the XRF reading, and when the swab turned bright red she said, "oh my". I felt like I was going to throw up, knowing that I'd been fe…

Looks like we either need some new regulations or some better enforcement because that's just disgusting. Glassware for everything it is, I guess.
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