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Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

nytimes.com

251–260 of 308 posts

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#251
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tim Cook reaps what he sows. He started all this when he fired Antonio García Martínez in response to an employee petition. (Hint to Tim Cook: You should have fired each and every one of the employees who signed that petition.) He made the wrong, worst people at the company feel "empowered" and now there's no stopping them.

For those who don't remember, this fired leader wrote "Most women in the Bay Area are soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit. They have their self- regarding entitlement feminism, and ceaselessly vaunt their independence, but the reality is, come the epidemic plague or foreign invasion, they’d become precisely the sort of useless baggage you’d trade for a box…

The fact is, that was a minor point in a well-received, critically-reviewd book he wrote a number of years before he was offered the job at Apple, and Apple hired him knowing about the book.

And now you, who never read the book but copy-pasta a few quoted sentences, want to destroy this man.

To go back after the fact and fire someone because of this was wrong. (That's why Apple settled for a lot of money, and Mr. Garcia can no longer talk about it.)

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#252
post #232
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who don't remember, this fired leader wrote "Most women in the Bay Area are soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit. They have their self- regarding entitlement feminism, and ceaselessly vaunt their independence, but the reality is, come the epidemic plague or foreign invasion, they’d become precisely the sort of useless baggage you’d trade for a box…

Yeah, the complaining about this is ludicrous. It feels like there are increasingly two camps, one of which believes anyone fired for social justice reasons is being wronged due to some kind of cancel culture, and the other of which believes that the former never happens in any case. The reality is some people are rightly fired, others wrongly. In this case, that person was rightly fired. Writing such inflammatory bo…

[deleted]

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#253
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tim Cook reaps what he sows. He started all this when he fired Antonio García Martínez in response to an employee petition. (Hint to Tim Cook: You should have fired each and every one of the employees who signed that petition.) He made the wrong, worst people at the company feel "empowered" and now there's no stopping them.

For those who don't remember, this fired leader wrote "Most women in the Bay Area are soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit. They have their self- regarding entitlement feminism, and ceaselessly vaunt their independence, but the reality is, come the epidemic plague or foreign invasion, they’d become precisely the sort of useless baggage you’d trade for a box…

Full context:

> Anyway: Chaos Monkeys contains scenes from Antonio’s private relationships. Characteristically, they’re painted as comedies, where his personal life is depicted as an unpredictable third party over which he has little control — only occasionally, it seems, does it even listen to his suggestions. He meets a woman via Match.com whom he calls British Trader, “an imposing, broad-shouldered presence, six feet tall in bare feet, and towering over me in heels.”

He’s enthralled, but everything about her is a surprise that keeps him off balance, from the fact that her “strapping and strutting” South African ex-boyfriend docks a boat next to his not long after their first date, or that she sleeps on “a cheap foam mattress about the width of an extra-jumbo-sized menstrual pad” above a floor covered from detritus from a recent renovation. She did such work herself because, Antonio explains, “she made Bob Vila of This Old House look like a fucking pussy.” Even this side of her life has him tiptoeing. “Postcoitally it was all I could do to balance myself on the edge of the pad and off the drywall dust,” he noted.

At one point, as a means of comparing the broad-shouldered British DIY expert favorably to other women he’d known, he wrote this:

Most women in the Bay Area are soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit. They have their self-regarding entitlement feminism, and ceaselessly vaunt their independence, but the reality is, come the epidemic plague or foreign invasion, they’d become precisely the sort of useless baggage you’d trade for a box of shotgun shells or a jerry can of diesel.

Out of context, you could, I guess, read this as bloviating from a would-be macho man beating his chest about how modern “entitlement feminism” would be unmasked as a fraud in a Mad Max scenario. In context, he’s obviously not much of a shotgun-wielder himself and is actually explaining why he fell for a strong woman, as the next passage reveals:

British Trader, on the other hand, was the sort of woman who would end up a useful ally in that postapocalypse, doing whatever work—be it carpentry, animal husbandry, or a shotgun blast to someone’s back—required doing.

Again, this is not a passage about women working in tech. It’s a throwaway line in a comedic recount of a romance that juxtaposes the woman he loves with the inadequate set of all others, a literary convention as old as writing itself. The only way to turn this into a commentary on the ability of women to work in Silicon Valley is if you do what Twitter naturally does and did, i.e. isolate the quote and surround it with mounds of James Damore references. More on this in a moment.

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/on-the-hypocrites-at-apple-who... ----------

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#254
post #253
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who don't remember, this fired leader wrote "Most women in the Bay Area are soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit. They have their self- regarding entitlement feminism, and ceaselessly vaunt their independence, but the reality is, come the epidemic plague or foreign invasion, they’d become precisely the sort of useless baggage you’d trade for a box…

Full context: > Anyway: Chaos Monkeys contains scenes from Antonio’s private relationships. Characteristically, they’re painted as comedies, where his personal life is depicted as an unpredictable third party over which he has little control — only occasionally, it seems, does it even listen to his suggestions. He meets a woman via Match.com whom he calls British Trader, “an imposing, broad-shouldered presence, six f…

Exactly. Thanks for trying to explain it to the hordes on Hacker News.

The NY Times mentioned this episode in this article, which is why I mentioned my belief that it's what started these internal troubles for Tim Cook and Apple.

> The complaints seem to be making an impact. When Apple this year hired Antonio García Martínez, a former Facebook manager, more than 2,000 employees signed a protest letter to management because of what they called “overtly racist and sexist remarks” in a book he had written, based in part on his time at Facebook. Within days, Apple fired him. Mr. García Martínez declined to comment on the specifics of his case.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An unofficial, definitely don't tell management slack would have 1000s of users before the email prohibiting it managed to finish sending to all employees. Draconian policies seem viable and like they'd work, but they require a certain amount of compliance to be effective.

These shadow IT attempts surface all the time through a vaguely competent SecOps’ team daily work, especially insider threat. Gets bragged about or picked up via MDM or DNS queries. So ya in this case the rule comes with easy enforcement.

In 2013 maybe. These days (and especially so at Apple) it doesn't take much skill to setup a group chat on signal - and we can assume they have personal phones. Your IT group are not going to find anything.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#256

Either slack will implement anti-activism features or a competitor will. Given Benioff’s public persona I’m betting on the latter. The one thing Slack has always sucked at is moderation tools.

What would those anti-activism features be? As far as I am aware workspace owners can see "private" messages, so slack isn't much use to organize.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#257
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One should always assume a company’s efforts are posturing.

Her role was not PR, it was about actually trying to implement fair trade supply chains for rare minerals. Regardless, you are free to assume PR posturing as an uninvolved commenter on HN - meanwhile, we’re discussing an actual person’s job and complaints therewith.

You seem to agree this is green-washing, which makes her role quite explicitly PR?

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#258

> I understand the secrecy piece is important for product security, to surprise and delight customers When was the last time you were surprised and delighted by an Apple product? I think they make the world's best, and most responsible, products, but surprised by an iPhone upgrade? When was the last time they created a new category?

That is an unfair comparison. A delightful improvement does not mean that Apple needs to create a new product category - which I don't think they have ever done actually. They didn't invent a smart phone, they didn't invent the tablet or the watch+. They took what was already on the market and improved it to the clear delight of their customers.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe there could be more nuance to the case. What of he was hired for a different role and then suddenly he had to attend customers? What if the manager just didn’t like him and set him up for failure? Why would we put the wrong in him if the company hired him on the first place?

Exactly, it's similar to the media frenzy around the woman who got seriously burned by Mcdonalds coffee and sued them. The reaction was mostly incredulity and mocking her, but the reality was that the coffee was exceptionally hot for decontamination convenience (a corporate money saving measure) and the cup was insulated such that the average person wouldn't ever expect it to be so dangerous. Best to withold judgment…

>... the reality was that the coffee was exceptionally hot for decontamination convenience

It sounds like that might not be accurate:

>...In 1994, a spokesman for the National Coffee Association said that the temperature of McDonald's coffee conformed to industry standards.[2] An "admittedly unscientific" survey by the Los Angeles Times that year found that coffee was served between 157 and 182 °F (69 and 83 °C), and that two coffee outlets tested, one Burger King and one Starbucks, served hotter coffee than McDonald's.[37]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restau...

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#260

> I understand the secrecy piece is important for product security, to surprise and delight customers When was the last time you were surprised and delighted by an Apple product? I think they make the world's best, and most responsible, products, but surprised by an iPhone upgrade? When was the last time they created a new category?

That is an unfair comparison. A delightful improvement does not mean that Apple needs to create a new product category - which I don't think they have ever done actually. They didn't invent a smart phone, they didn't invent the tablet or the watch+. They took what was already on the market and improved it to the clear delight of their customers.

They defined those categories, revolutionized them. When was the last product release as revolutionary as the iPhone or iPad?
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