On YouTube’s recommendation system • Hacker News Board

Re: On YouTube’s recommendation system

#251

Post by joe_the_user » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 12:03 AM UTC

swalsh wrote: post #11

The reccomendation system is absolutely dangerous. Just this summer, I watched one video on peppers out of curiousity. By the end of summer I've got multiple different varieties growing, and all the accessories to support them. I'm really enjoying my garden, but it's very unlikely I would have started one without the youtube algorithm. Similarly my doctor reccomended I exercise more, so I started running. Then I goog…

I'd just note some things Youtube doesn't have.

It doesn't have any "the key words I'm interested are" section. It doesn't have any fine grained "show me less like this" or "show me more like that" options.

That all the filters of net (Google, FB, etc) have convinced users that an out-of-their control recommendation system is a triumph of this sort of system. If you just demand the recommendation system be different, you're just asking users be controlled in a different way.

Edit: whenever I mention this, I get "but the users are morons and need to be lead". I'd say instead, users are often unthinking and need to be educated.

Re: On YouTube’s recommendation system

#252

Post by amelius » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 12:04 AM UTC

5faulker wrote: post #89

swalsh wrote: post #11

The reccomendation system is absolutely dangerous. Just this summer, I watched one video on peppers out of curiousity. By the end of summer I've got multiple different varieties growing, and all the accessories to support them. I'm really enjoying my garden, but it's very unlikely I would have started one without the youtube algorithm. Similarly my doctor reccomended I exercise more, so I started running. Then I goog…

It's a consumption-driven economy, where those who are economically useless are driven out of the game.

Yes, few people realize it but fixing Google's algorithms could be the best thing that ever happened to the climate, and the worst thing that ever happened to our economy (depending on how you look at it).

Re: On YouTube’s recommendation system

#253

Post by blitzar » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 12:10 AM UTC

swalsh wrote: post #11

The reccomendation system is absolutely dangerous. Just this summer, I watched one video on peppers out of curiousity. By the end of summer I've got multiple different varieties growing, and all the accessories to support them. I'm really enjoying my garden, but it's very unlikely I would have started one without the youtube algorithm. Similarly my doctor reccomended I exercise more, so I started running. Then I goog…

> I watched one video on peppers out of curiousity.

I watched one video on preppers out of curiousity - and my feed is now full of videos about machine guns, shot guns and the correct military gear to pretend you are in the army.

Re: On YouTube’s recommendation system

#254

Post by eyelidlessness » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 12:13 AM UTC

swalsh wrote: post #11

The reccomendation system is absolutely dangerous. Just this summer, I watched one video on peppers out of curiousity. By the end of summer I've got multiple different varieties growing, and all the accessories to support them. I'm really enjoying my garden, but it's very unlikely I would have started one without the youtube algorithm. Similarly my doctor reccomended I exercise more, so I started running. Then I goog…

Weird. If I watch a music video I get recommendations to watch crackpots challenging vaccines or claiming that Nancy Pelosi is passing Sharia Law. Maybe I should watch more supplements videos, that seems to be the sell from the recommended videos.

Re: On YouTube’s recommendation system

#255

Post by eyelidlessness » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 12:14 AM UTC

eyelidlessness wrote: post #254

swalsh wrote: post #11

The reccomendation system is absolutely dangerous. Just this summer, I watched one video on peppers out of curiousity. By the end of summer I've got multiple different varieties growing, and all the accessories to support them. I'm really enjoying my garden, but it's very unlikely I would have started one without the youtube algorithm. Similarly my doctor reccomended I exercise more, so I started running. Then I goog…

Weird. If I watch a music video I get recommendations to watch crackpots challenging vaccines or claiming that Nancy Pelosi is passing Sharia Law. Maybe I should watch more supplements videos, that seems to be the sell from the recommended videos.

I very much avoid YouTube across the board because this is so consistent.

Re: On YouTube’s recommendation system

#256

Post by ekianjo » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 12:35 AM UTC

> Someone may report that they’re very satisfied by videos that claim “the Earth is flat,” but that doesn’t mean we want to recommend this type of low-quality content.

OK, that's a very simple example they are throwing out there. But there are many cases where nothing is really settled and Youtube will arbitrarily decide what is fake or not - even though they have absolutely no right to make such kind of judgment. "Authoritative News" can routinely mean "facts" and "hoaxes". It's not like we have never seen those in recent history...

Re: On YouTube’s recommendation system

#257

Post by int_19h » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 12:50 AM UTC

cronix wrote: post #39

lordentropy wrote: post #5

For me, it seems like youtube's recommendation system mostly gets stuck in the local optimum. Once you watch a video from a particular channel, it'll keep on recommending the videos from the same channel for months. Soon, the recommendation just consists of stuff from the channels that have you already viewed. You rarely see new types of recommendations.

Visit in incognito mode and don't sign in. Brand new, fresh youtube, ready to be corrupted again.

I watch YouTube from Roku sometimes without signing in, but it still seems to somehow - by IP, presumably? - pick up related topics from searches on other devices (that are signed in).

Re: On YouTube’s recommendation system

#258

Post by getpost » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 12:54 AM UTC

MMS21 wrote: post #200

LeoPanthera wrote: post #54

A lot of comments here seem to not know: 1. If you don't have your YouTube activity history enabled, the algorithm doesn't remember what you've watched and you'll probably get clickbaity/junky recommendations. 2. If you have set your history to expire after some amount of time, it will start re-recommending videos you've already seen once it has forgotten you have watched them. You can set both options here: https://…

I have my watch history turned off so the red bar doesn't appear in thumbnails of videos I left a quarter way through. YouTube still shows me videos that I've watched years ago (Primitive Technology for example a channel which has stopped producing content) and left likes on. How is it that their algorithm doesn't factor in likes/ dislikes at all?!

I always watch logged-out. (Occasionally on iOS I will be unknowingly logged-in, not sure how that happens. I log out if I notice I am logged-in.) YouTube seems to maintain an identity for me, and auto-constructs playlists using past items viewed. Recommendations appear to relate to past viewing.

I’m uncertain on how cookies are maintained. Are these Safari cookies behind the scenes?

My point is, contrary to GP’s claim, there is some mechanism for viewing history even if it is turned off.

Re: On YouTube’s recommendation system

#259

Post by alfor » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 12:59 AM UTC

It’s a lot of power in one corporation. They have the power to shape what we think, at scale.

On the other hand, if they let youtube go without any ’fringe control’ the society might collapse into tribal war.

All the previous information distribution channels had some form of control.

Re: On YouTube’s recommendation system

#260

Post by andrepd » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 1:01 AM UTC

swalsh wrote: post #11

The reccomendation system is absolutely dangerous. Just this summer, I watched one video on peppers out of curiousity. By the end of summer I've got multiple different varieties growing, and all the accessories to support them. I'm really enjoying my garden, but it's very unlikely I would have started one without the youtube algorithm. Similarly my doctor reccomended I exercise more, so I started running. Then I goog…

On a more serious side, I searched for a 20s video of a funny gaffe by the President of my country, and immediately my feed was flooded by videos from the local right-populist party's fake news propaganda channel. It's that easy for an unwary person just out to watch a funny video to become exposed to a torrent of bullshit.

Anecdotally (n=1, I know), I watch/listen to a lot of leftist lectures and speeches and my feed does not get inundated with them nearly as much... Really makes you think.