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Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

wsj.com

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Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#251

Post by GiorgioG »

Clubber wrote: post #210
poopypoopington wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Many of them were armed 2. That was because the Trump administration refused to send in the national guard for several hours after the terrorist attack on January 6th. If the government does not stand up to terrorists attacking the US Capitol, then yes, they can take the building quite easily.

>terrorist attack on January 6th Are you seriously comparing what happened on January 6th to 9/11? How about the Oklahoma City bombing? Lockerbie bombing? Get some perspective dude.

Yes, whenever people storm the Capital, calling for the VP's head - that's totally not a big deal. Maybe in the 3rd world that's just another Wednesday, but in the U.S. it was a very big fucking deal.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#252

Post by brodouevencode »

monoideism wrote: post #184
sofixa wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the U.S. murder rate is not all that remarkable, really The US is at 4.96/100,000 for 2012. For reference, Angola is better at 4.85. Bulgaria and Romania, the poorest countries in the EU, are at 1.3. France is at 1.2. If by not remarkable you mean 3 as bad as other developed countries, sure. The numbers are only for intentional homicide, not even counting accidents and suicides which are also made worse by the…

> their theoretical ability to fight their government with small arms adorable and misguided Taliban? Vietcong?

The whole argument that small arms are of no comparison to tanks and nuclear weapons are made by people who have no experience with firearms, fire fight and perimeter and assault tactics, or any type of military strategy. To even get to this point you would have to assume that the US would devolve into a civil war, in which you can also safely assume that many in the US military would be defectors (leaving a lot of empty tanks and airplanes, if not turned to the "other" side). You would also have to assume that you could safely identify gun owners that would be willing to combat - if there's anything the US attempts to avoid (and with good reason) it is attacking non-combatants (it would be very easy to blend in to the normal population as we've seen in the Middle East). The difference here and the Civil War of 1865 was that there were clear demarcations between the sides. You would also have to assume that whatever resources you employ to launch this war would not interfere with any other outside enemy that may use this time as an opportunity to launch their own assaults (i.e. it would be a great opportunity for another 9/11). Mostly, this is a lazy half-thought-out argument.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#253

Post by tablespoon »

bananabreakfast wrote: post #185
tablespoon wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My wife (and many women) has felt that the only way to effect change in our gun laws would be for white men to feel like targets. That's literally a joke. I heard it on a Dave Chappelle special. IIRC, actual gun rights groups like the NRA want black people and women to buy guns, because they're about gun rights and realize they're better secured if their constituency is larger.

Wrong. They are about gun ownership . Any rights are simply to enable more purchasing. Buying more guns makes the manufacturers happy.

> Wrong. They are about gun ownership. Any rights are simply to enable more purchasing. Buying more guns makes the manufacturers happy.

Oh, come on. Don't be so lazy to assume the rights advocacy you don't (seem to) like is just some bad faith conspiracy to sell shit and make money.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#255

Post by clairity »

greenie_beans wrote: post #160

i live in the american south, where everybody owns guns. i own a gun for hunting. but for self defense, i have pepper spray and bear spray instead of guns because i don't want to kill somebody regardless of their intentions. i'd be curious to see the stats of self-defense/firearms, because it seems like self-defense gun owners are LARPing over imagined intruder situations. they're definitely not about to take up arms…

it's interesting that you criticize owning guns for self-defense, but claim it as a (partial) reason for owning your own guns. perhaps you mean self-defense against wildlife rather than people, since you use pepper/bear spray to avoid chancing murder?

but yes, there's is roughly a 0% chance that using a gun defensively in a hostile situation will result in successful self-defense, where only the perpetrator is incapacitated and not the defender or bystanders, primarily because of a complete lack of (extreme duress) experience and (usually) genuine lethal intent. and the mere act of brandishing a weapon in such circumstances tends to escalate them uncontrollably, and to the defender's disadvantage.

we can discourage gun ownership for self-defense and still support them for their (symbolic) value against governmental tyranny, as well their general usefulness in hunting and rural life. regardless, we should work on reducing gun death and injury: over 100K/yr are injured/killed by guns in the US.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#256

Post by anonfornoreason »

bm3719 wrote: post #106

Excellent. There's no reason defensive gun buyers should be demographically different from the general population. It's understandable that gun sales for hunting or other activities might show differences, but we all have the same personal security needs. Side note: I'm one of the people here with a large collection of firearms. One thing to realize when you see the statistic that the US has more firearms than people…

Or, the fact that you don't really know a particular gun fits you until you buy it and use it for a decent period of time. I have 6 different semi-automatic pistols because it's hard to find the right fit. Personally, it takes me 1000 rounds or so, plus 8+ hours of draw practice to feel comfortable with a given platform. Finally, selling used guns kinda sucks so I just end up keeping them.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#257

Post by brodouevencode »

chmod600 wrote: post #113
sofixa wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the U.S. murder rate is not all that remarkable, really The US is at 4.96/100,000 for 2012. For reference, Angola is better at 4.85. Bulgaria and Romania, the poorest countries in the EU, are at 1.3. France is at 1.2. If by not remarkable you mean 3 as bad as other developed countries, sure. The numbers are only for intentional homicide, not even counting accidents and suicides which are also made worse by the…

A rational person compares risks on an absolute scale first. Out of all the things that could happen on a given day, is getting murdered a real concern? For people in the U.S., it's not really worth worrying about unless you have some other risk factors for murder, like criminal activity. If you are selling lion repellant that makes a lion attack 80% less likely, that's not something I'd be interested in. That being…

> Probably more to do with policing structure.

And culture.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#258

Post by wavefunction »

no-dr-onboard wrote: post #244
monoideism wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> their theoretical ability to fight their government with small arms adorable and misguided Taliban? Vietcong?

Excellent examples that will undoubtedly be shushed away.

I disagree that they're excellent examples when you consider the difference in terrain, infrastructure, the cultural and religious differences between the combatants and the status of one side as foreign occupying force.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#259

Post by csours »

KorematsuFredt wrote: post #239
sofixa wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the U.S. murder rate is not all that remarkable, really The US is at 4.96/100,000 for 2012. For reference, Angola is better at 4.85. Bulgaria and Romania, the poorest countries in the EU, are at 1.3. France is at 1.2. If by not remarkable you mean 3 as bad as other developed countries, sure. The numbers are only for intentional homicide, not even counting accidents and suicides which are also made worse by the…

PS: I am strong supporter of Gun rights and proud gun owner. I fully agree with anti-gun crowd that having vast majority of guns in hands of citizens (legally or illegally) leads to more deaths. USA's comparison with Angola is actually more serious than the numbers tell you because you need to realize that USA has far better medical response and doctors trained to handle gunshot wounds. So to truly compare Angola and…

So if more Texas liberal women were armed, they would still have the right to choose to get an abortion?

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#260

Post by tootie »

chmod600 wrote: post #73

There's something admirable about the idea that a government would not take away all the guns. The idea that people should not have to give up all of their ability to fight. The idea that people should not be entirely dependent on police for their defense. And the idea that physically weaker people (often women) can defend themselves against the strong. Does this idea work? Surprisingly well. If you had to guess the…

I think the simplest counterpoint is Britain. The US Second Amendment is a direct descendant of the British Common Law right to bear arm. And Britain is arguably our national parent with a similar culture and history and a modern pluralistic culture. They effectively ended their right to private gun ownership in the 20th century to the point that it's now extremely difficult to procure one and there are very few guns owned per capita. And their homicide rate is less than half of ours. Same goes for Australia and several other first world democracies. You can at the very least say that rate of gun ownership has no correlation with gun crime. And quite possibly that it correlates directly in that more guns leads to more gun deaths.

So, personally (subjectively), I don't find it admirable at all. Freedom is a good default option, but I see America's gun culture as pretty sickening.

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