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Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

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Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you still have to compile code in 2021 prior to running it, you're burning a lot of extra valuable time off your life I almost never run my code. If it compiles I know it's correct.

Really? I hope not. Just because it compiles, doesn't mean it won't panic because of some weird state caused by a race condition buried deep in the code where a lock wasn't held when it was so desperately needed

Looking at his username, its very very likely sarcasm.

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#252
post #25

I think this shows how much HN is a bubble in itself. Most discussions here happen around new/exciting/cool/weird technology. And don't get me wrong, I love those discussions! That's why I come here! But reality outside of this bubble is people building and maintaining web apps as efficiently as possible and PHP hasn't stopped being very efficient. On the contrary, it's getting better with time. Interestingly enough,…

PHP started in ~1995, became a thing in what, 2003 with WordPress? Wait 8 years, some tech discussed today may hit the charts)

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#253
Methodology has at least two major flaws.

1- They say they only consider what the root of a domain is using, ignoring subdomains. Speaking for my own org our real work happens in subdomains running Django apps. Our www is just a WordPress site because we don't want to spend cycles writing/maintaining a simple blog engine.

2- For a lot of sites using e.g. Django there wouldn't be an automatic way of determining what language was used.

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not about efficiency , it is about legacy. You can count number of Perl scripts out there and conclude that Perl is still the most popular scripting/devops tool in the world

In PHP's case it's about WordPress which still being deployed at a very high rate. While the blogging thing isn't that much in focus anymore, WordPress + Divi + WooCommerce is an extremely common stack for setting up eCommerce sites. An yes, then there's Drupal, Laravel, Symfony, and many others, and they're going strong too. Heck, even Joomla is actively developed even though it's probably small enough today to be c…

And facebook...

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#255
post #25

I think this shows how much HN is a bubble in itself. Most discussions here happen around new/exciting/cool/weird technology. And don't get me wrong, I love those discussions! That's why I come here! But reality outside of this bubble is people building and maintaining web apps as efficiently as possible and PHP hasn't stopped being very efficient. On the contrary, it's getting better with time. Interestingly enough,…

I tell people all the time about how good the Ruby job market is. Lots of opportunities and not a ton of people to fill them for some reason. People from other languages don’t seem to want to believe it.

Back in 2016 I quit my job as a QA tester to pivot back into my intended career as a software developer. (I had studied CS but got roped into QA as my first job out of school). I sat down and tried to build multiple rails sites as practice. I kept seeing all these Rails positions in the NYC area. I learned a few hard lessons after spending almost two years unemployed and running out my savings:

1. Yes there are lots of Rails jobs but they wanted senior or at least mid level people who learned the deep nitty gritty of Rails at other companies. Few companies were willing to hire you as entry level to work on the job. The few entry level jobs had an ocean of candidates from the bootcamps.

2. I hated looking at Ruby code. Coming from a Java/C# background in college, it just make no sense to me and was ugly. I learned that while there are a billion guides on how to build basic Rails apps, there is very little on doing more complex things. A lot of that knowledge is just spending the time in a job learning a lot of things you can't learn in a book.

Now that I have internalized MVC architecture much better now I have considered going back to Rails to learn what I couldn't comprehend back then but every time I think about it I think about all the horrible nights I was sitting in my basement depressed that I was forcing myself to learn this crap and getting nowhere.

3. I should have dropped it much sooner. Instead I dragged myself in misery day in and day out and entered a deep depression trying to get some position....anything in Ruby/Rails.

4. I even resorted to unsavory tactics such as super fuzzing my resume just to get my foot in the door and ultimately bomb final interviews when asked about the inner working of libraries such as ActiveSupport among others. (Like seriously? Did I have to read all the C source of Ruby to get some basic job?). This fuzzed resume got me in a position where I was getting a 90%+ callback rate and the majority of them led to the final technical interview where I would end up not knowing some Rubyism or having difficulty solving a Ruby question in their existing codebase. Many rejections were due to the fact that while I solved the problem, I didn't solve it in the "Ruby" way. I guess Java/C#/C ruined my brain. I am not worthy of Matz's greatness.

Eventually through sheer dumb luck I managed to get a Angular2+/Flask position at a super large oldschool company only due to my nice manager knowing nothing about the tech stack so he took a chance on me. I thank god for this opportunity as I was maxing out my credit cards trying to survive. This low stress position allowed me to fall in love with Angular and Python and I have never looked back on the horror that is Ruby/Rails.

Thinking about my experience now(and this is subjecting to my experience interviewing at dozens of NYC companies), I noticed Rails being used at all these silly hipster startups that mostly produce garbage anyway. I remember interviewing for this "art studio" that was producing a revolutionary camera system in partnership with an Italian company. The company was just one giant room with round tables where Rails people would be making the web backend that connected with their camera system. They produced the product and got rid of their Rails people a year later. That seems to be the nature of the ecosystem. I saw so much of that in the Rails community.

6. This experience taught me that the community of the language will evidently affect your day to day life and overall career prospects. The niche nature of Rails allowed people who got in super early to make massive mounts of money (hence all the Senior Rails job ads promoting 200K in NYC) but you are mostly stuck working for these "cutting edge" hipster companies and if you don't or want to fit that scene then you are SOL. Likewise Angular and Python attracted some startups as well as enterprise companies due to Microsoft's backing and its excellent library ecosystem for enterprise applications. The community is quite nice and has opened my eyes to what it is capable of. You can find startups using it or relax in an enterprise shop. Was a world of difference from Ruby/Rails.

Sometimes I shed a tear for losing almost two years of my life to this. But the reality is that I made many poor decisions from my college days up until I got this Angular job.

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#256
post #25

I think this shows how much HN is a bubble in itself. Most discussions here happen around new/exciting/cool/weird technology. And don't get me wrong, I love those discussions! That's why I come here! But reality outside of this bubble is people building and maintaining web apps as efficiently as possible and PHP hasn't stopped being very efficient. On the contrary, it's getting better with time. Interestingly enough,…

HN mostly has people making web applications. These statistics are about web sites. There is a bit of a blurry line between the two, but you for the most part don't hire a software developer to make a web site.

PHP has a huge market share in web sites, but much less in web apps.

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am old also, and I have maintained some PHP code for about 18+ years now. From PHP 4 to PHP 7.4. The changes and improvements are dramatic and wonderful. Improvements in speed, security, error processing, functionality/integration with databases, Composer, etc... While I am not suggesting you go back to PHP, but things are simply not the same anymore.

I know it is not the same anymore. It doesn’t invalidate my experience from back then and the reason I left the community. And to get a response along the line that, I don’t get to have an opinion because the stuff I worked on was “OLD SHIT” is insulting.

It sounds like you may be taking this personally, that is not my intent.

I think you should realize that when someone expresses an experience people often times read it as warning.

And your experience sharing (as a warning to others) is not useful to the current state. And therefore could be considered damaging to other people's perspective without a counter "experience" being shared.

I have my experience and the fact that it aligns perfectly with yours up until you stopped using PHP should be appreciated for what it is.

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#258
post #153

42% of all websites are on Wordpress, which is written in PHP.[a] The vast majority of those websites use vanilla WordPress out-of-the-box to serve a tiny audience. If you look at market share by traffic , a much smaller share than 79% of the world's largest web sites (Wikipedia, YouTube, Google, Amazon, Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, Instagram, eBay, PornHub, etc.) run on PHP. Those websites account for the vast majorit…

Em... You are very wrong in your own example. Wikipedia, Facebook, and Pornhub use PHP. Technically though, Facebook uses Hack, a more strictly-typed customized version of PHP for their own uses, but Hack is still mostly compatible with PHP and until recently could process any PHP file directly.

30% is much smaller than 79%, isn't it?

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These days if you're not using PSR4 configured auto loading with all your code in the src or tests directory and a separate public folder then you're not really qualified to work on PHP at a professional level. I highly encourage using this template for all new projects https://github.com/thephpleague/skeleton

I just had my worst PHP dev experience in 5 years of coding. Literally. I just had to leave the office. I'm on my way home and still feel fatigued. The project not only doesn't use composer (well, it does now because I needed some components) but it has the same third party components duplicated or triplicated around the application. It looks like they downloaded them Everytime they needed them. Some of them are modi…

Classic. Absolutely fabulous when this happens.

Just want to nuke everything to oblivion.

But there is hope, sometimes it can be better to inherit badly written repetitive & copy-pasted code, rather than badly written abstractions.

Badly written abstractions can be really hard to get out of years later because it tends to be viral all over the project, however when there are no abstractions at all, you can decide them right now, you are in charge. Bit by bit you can unwind this mess to something grander, to your own creation. Good luck. Praying the PHP prayer for you.

Re: Usage statistics of server-side programming languages for websites

#260
post #25

I think this shows how much HN is a bubble in itself. Most discussions here happen around new/exciting/cool/weird technology. And don't get me wrong, I love those discussions! That's why I come here! But reality outside of this bubble is people building and maintaining web apps as efficiently as possible and PHP hasn't stopped being very efficient. On the contrary, it's getting better with time. Interestingly enough,…

I'm surprised to see ColdFusion on this list.
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