Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 437 posts

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#251

Post by MisterBastahrd »

hunterb123 wrote: post #25
dragontamer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we know that natural immunity only lasts 6 months and vaccination immunity lasts like 8 months (for Pfizer at least. Moderna probably a little bit longer, unsure how much longer though). Either way, you need a round to re-up your immune system. A lot of these Delta cases are "breakthroughs", in vaccinated populations... or reinfections (ie: in already infected populations) For example: South Dakota was someth…

That's incorrect, natural immunity will last many years. Your antibody levels do go down but your body remembers how to make more. Vaccine immunity does seem to need booster shots.

That's funny considering I've had COVID at least twice now, once in December 2020 and again in July 2021.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#252

Post by tomohawk »

So, a CDC study found 78% of people hospitalized for covid were obese or overweight.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/covid-cdc-study-finds-roughl...

What's to stop the president from issuing another OSHA rule to fire people who are overweight and not actively addressing this risk factor?

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#253

Post by cmsj »

bserge wrote: post #245
michaelt wrote: post #40

As a part-time libertarian, one of the frustrating parts of the pandemic has been discovering how many people need the nanny state to step to stop them punching themselves in the face. Near the start of the pandemic, I thought the most intrusive state powers would barely be needed. Why would you ever need to make a vaccine mandatory? What rational person would refuse a lifesaving medicine offered to them for free? We…

Why not let them? A lot of things can only be learned through hardship.

There are two things a vaccine can do - protect you, or protect society. Their greatest benefit is when they protect society by dampening the spread/severity of a pathogen to a level low enough that society can function essentially normally.

If a sizeable chunk of the population chooses not to participate in that collective action, they endanger themselves (which can be argued is their fair choice), but also those around them who are unable to take the vaccine. There is no individualist refusal to vaccinate, the effect is still collective, just in a negative direction.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#254

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

lamontcg wrote: post #184
angelzen wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CDC says vaccines are only 66 percent effective at preventing Delta infection. As far as I can understand, this means 34% of vaccinated people develop a covid infection. I'm having a hard time squaring this with 'vaccines prevent infection' thesis. Perhaps I'm missing something obvious? (Yes, I'm aware the fraction is better against severe Delta infection. Yes, I agree 3x reduction is infection rate is a good thing.)…

> CDC says vaccines are only 66 percent effective at preventing Delta infection WITH A 95% CONFIDENCE INTERVAL OF 26% TO 84% They only statistically modeled how much their unvaccinated population was already recovered from coronavirus based on estimates of community spread, among other issues with that number. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7034e4.htm And when you have a CI of something like that size, of c…

Or 30%, to be fair.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#255

Post by cmsj »

roenxi wrote: post #242
michaelt wrote: post #40

As a part-time libertarian, one of the frustrating parts of the pandemic has been discovering how many people need the nanny state to step to stop them punching themselves in the face. Near the start of the pandemic, I thought the most intrusive state powers would barely be needed. Why would you ever need to make a vaccine mandatory? What rational person would refuse a lifesaving medicine offered to them for free? We…

(1) It is population level rational to have diversity. Sometimes acting irrationally has payoffs because something wildly unexpected happens. (2) There is an almost endless list of things people do that are to their detriment. A core part of libertarianism is that people have to be free to make their own mistakes. We don't mandate exercise, prudent spending, safe sex practices or sensible family planning. The reasons…

avoiding exercise doesn't cause people around you to get fatter though.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#256

Post by cmsj »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #248
kxyvr wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think part of the difficulty with the libertarian point of view regarding the COVID vaccine is that not all parties are given a free choice either. For example, if someone refuses a vaccine, should an emergency room be free to refuse care? Currently, they can not due to EMTALA. That's not to say that it's unreasonable to question and philosophize the implications of a mandate. At the same time, barring a more effec…

"For example, if someone refuses a vaccine, should an emergency room be free to refuse care?" No we shouldn't, we don't turn people away who drove drunken with 200km/h and crashed.

those drunk drivers may have caused collateral injury/death in their crash, but once taken to an ER they can't infect those around them with crushed limbs and twisted metal.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#257

Post by csomar »

michaelt wrote: post #40

As a part-time libertarian, one of the frustrating parts of the pandemic has been discovering how many people need the nanny state to step to stop them punching themselves in the face. Near the start of the pandemic, I thought the most intrusive state powers would barely be needed. Why would you ever need to make a vaccine mandatory? What rational person would refuse a lifesaving medicine offered to them for free? We…

The whole point of democracy and freedom is that you convince people with words and not with sticks. If people are refusing a vaccine, that means you (as the political class, media class, scientific class) have failed your job to educate a segment of your population.

It is easy to blame people for what could be your shortcomings. But this is not 5% or 10% of your population, it seems to be around 40-50%. This is more of a crisis of faith on both public and private institutions and it certainly doesn't get fixed with sticks and by removing more rights (and thus reinforcing the believes that made these people refuse the vaccine in the first place).

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#258

Post by [deleted] »

michaelt wrote: post #40

As a part-time libertarian, one of the frustrating parts of the pandemic has been discovering how many people need the nanny state to step to stop them punching themselves in the face. Near the start of the pandemic, I thought the most intrusive state powers would barely be needed. Why would you ever need to make a vaccine mandatory? What rational person would refuse a lifesaving medicine offered to them for free? We…

[deleted]

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#259

Post by cortic »

michaelt wrote: post #40

As a part-time libertarian, one of the frustrating parts of the pandemic has been discovering how many people need the nanny state to step to stop them punching themselves in the face. Near the start of the pandemic, I thought the most intrusive state powers would barely be needed. Why would you ever need to make a vaccine mandatory? What rational person would refuse a lifesaving medicine offered to them for free? We…

The problem with free choice is that people often make the wrong choice. -The Chinese Communist Party and Michaelt the Libertarian.

Re: Biden to mandate coronavirus vaccine for federal workers

#260

Post by cmsj »

muttantt wrote: post #221
michaelt wrote: post #40

As a part-time libertarian, one of the frustrating parts of the pandemic has been discovering how many people need the nanny state to step to stop them punching themselves in the face. Near the start of the pandemic, I thought the most intrusive state powers would barely be needed. Why would you ever need to make a vaccine mandatory? What rational person would refuse a lifesaving medicine offered to them for free? We…

If something is free, you are the product.

Air is free.
Post reply on HN