Why can't the AG sue based on false advertising?
California aims to ban recycling symbols on things that aren’t recyclable
251–260 of 297 posts
Re: California aims to ban recycling symbols on things that aren’t recyclable
#252Wouldn't this violate free speech laws? I'm all for regulation to disclose information, but regulation to prevent people from saying something is a bit more dicey. Even trademarks to an extent feel unfair (should you really be unable to say the word Google in a TV Ad?).
There are lots of exceptions to free speech: false advertising, all manner of fraud, libel, falsely shouting fire in a theatre, incitement of violence, etc. You can say "Google" in a TV ad without violating their trademark. You can't use the word "Google" in every way (you can't pretend to be Google so people trust you, for instance). The legal thing that causes folks to be scared of doing this in practical situation…
The issue is prior restraint. If you sell someone a product marked in such as way as to create an expectation that it will be recyclable, taking no steps to dispel that belief, and it turns out not to be recyclable, then you've committed fraud. The buyer would have a legitimate claim against you for any costs which resulted from the product not being recyclable, for example if they had to pay extra to dispose of it as garbage rather than recycling. This is not the same as saying that it ought to be illegal to apply the recycling symbol to the product in the first place, since merely applying the symbol is not a sufficient condition to qualify as fraud. For example, there could be an accompanying disclaimer (or expectation that a "reasonable person" would know) that while the product is recyclable, it may not be permitted in the regular recycling bins in the buyer's region.
Re: California aims to ban recycling symbols on things that aren’t recyclable
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wait, does plastic really turn back into oil over time? How much time are we talking about here?
Not our lifetime. I disagree with the original poster. Often times manufacturing fresh polymer, while cheaper, uses many times the carbon content of the polymer in process energy. Just as an example I know about offhand, isoprene rubber takes five times the carbon content of the product to process from petrochemical feedstocks. That said, recycling isn't very good either, so better would be to just not use it unneces…
You can recycle PLA into recycled PLA filament for 3D printers. You can buy it online; it at one time was cheaper than new.
Re: California aims to ban recycling symbols on things that aren’t recyclable
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
What you say, plus occasional reminder to wash your recycleables before throwing them into the bin, is why I consider the whole recycling scheme to be worthless distraction. Nobody in their right mind has the time and space to properly sort and clean the trash. For the rest, inefficient use of water and detergent has an environmental cost too. This stuff should be all handled by a combination of centralized work at s…
If you wash up manually in a bowl, you can use the remnant liquid to do your recyclable washing before pouring it down the sink, but .. well, as you suggest "I ain't got no time for that". As for your pizza box idea, I'm not sure that's not simply complicating things - now you'd have two independently-recyclable materials tha most consumers will simply leave together and dump in the box, leaving you with sorting prob…
> I mean, for crissakes - a neighbour in my block thinks that actual pizza crusts and leftovers are recyclable.
Live in an apartment and oh the things people throw into the recycling dumpster. Plants, chairs, mattresses, clothes, you name it. People toss it into the recycle.
I honestly would not be surprised if 10% of what gets tossed into that bin actually gets properly recycled.
Re: California aims to ban recycling symbols on things that aren’t recyclable
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
No need for an actual tax, just make the recycled plastics available on the market at cost. If recycling is actually useful, and the state isn't doing something stupid like subsidizing the production of non-recyclable plastics or penalizing the recyclable ones, then the "tax" will be the difference between the (presumed lower) price of recycled plastic and the price of new plastic.
That only works if we can make the recycled plastic cheaper than the regular plastic I don't think the recycling bits remove costs, I think they add costs
> That only works if we can make the recycled plastic cheaper than the regular plastic
Then perhaps we shouldn't be recycling that plastic?
Re: California aims to ban recycling symbols on things that aren’t recyclable
#256John Oliver did a rant on plastics recycling, a few weeks ago[0]. TL;DR: Anything with a "Number in triangle" over 2, is probably not going to be recycled, and you might as well toss it in the trash, as that's where it will end up, anyway[1]. Different from this symbol, and probably won't be affected, but recycling has a great deal of "PR spin" to it. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fiu9GSOmt8E [1] https://dilber…
Burying plastic is likely the best solution anyway as it's a CO2 sink. It's a great way to sequester carbon.
Except it is made from fossil fuels in the first place, so it is at best carbon neutral--but isn't, because making plastic takes energy. There's nothing green about burying plastics.
Re: California aims to ban recycling symbols on things that aren’t recyclable
#257I was thinking about this yesterday when I saw a pizza box with the recyclable symbol on it. It's infuriating that intelligent people can't seem to understand that pizza boxes aren't recyclable after they've had pizza in them. What about oil soaked cardboard says "recyclable" to people?
I think the relationship between food and recycling is justifiably unclear to most people. Can you recycle cans of refried beans? Prior to today I would have thought yes, but now I see I'm supposed to rinse them. For refried beans I'm already wondering about the water wasted washing the can vs. the benefit of recycling it. I live in a drought region so I'm probably going to chuck it. Cardboard sandwich containers? Is…
If you live in a drought region even if everyone in the entire region rinsed their refried bean cans that probably wouldn't push the needle on water use on a statistically significant level. Industry is who is causing the drought, not your lawns and swimming pools and long showers, despite what the narrative in the industry funded press might say. When you look at the actual water use data from state agencies devoid of editorial bias, this conclusion is obvious.
Re: California aims to ban recycling symbols on things that aren’t recyclable
#258I was thinking about this yesterday when I saw a pizza box with the recyclable symbol on it. It's infuriating that intelligent people can't seem to understand that pizza boxes aren't recyclable after they've had pizza in them. What about oil soaked cardboard says "recyclable" to people?
It's infuriating to me that people like you keep perpetuating this myth. Pizza boxes, even contaminated with some oil and cheese are recyclable (just take any leftover pizza/crusts out). I have family in the recycling industry, here's research on the matter: https://www.westrock.com/greasecheesestudy
Well, it seems you're right that soiled pizza boxes can be recycled: https://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/yes-you-can-recycle-your-p... . But I think calling it a myth is not accurate. A significant fraction of recycling operations still refuse soiled pizza boxes (whether for good reasons or not), and it was widely held guidance until very recently that pizza boxes are not generally recyclable. So thanks for spreading the (relatively new) information!
Re: California aims to ban recycling symbols on things that aren’t recyclable
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not our lifetime. I disagree with the original poster. Often times manufacturing fresh polymer, while cheaper, uses many times the carbon content of the polymer in process energy. Just as an example I know about offhand, isoprene rubber takes five times the carbon content of the product to process from petrochemical feedstocks. That said, recycling isn't very good either, so better would be to just not use it unneces…
You can recycle PLA into recycled PLA filament for 3D printers. You can buy it online; it at one time was cheaper than new.
I don't doubt it, but not in standard curbside recycling bins basically anywhere.
Re: California aims to ban recycling symbols on things that aren’t recyclable
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
Taxes are not the right answer. If you are impacted by a negative externality then you have legitimate standing to sue the source of the externality in civil court (individually or as a group) in accordance with how much the side effects of their actions cost you. If you can't demonstrate that you were actually affected, or the damage is too trivial to be worth taking to court, then for all practical purposes there i…
Civil courts are not equipped to deal with this issue. At best you will get a lot of very rich lawyers. At worst you will get inaction and a lot of very rich lawyers. Taxes are a traditional way of pricing in a market externality. It seems appropriate here.
Politicians are not equipped to properly assess the externality incurred in each case and see that the affected party is compensated in accordance with the degree to which they were affected. Taxes paint with a very broad brush, do nothing to compensate the victims, and essentially make the government an accomplice in the externality—once the tax is in place, anything which actually reduced the externality will negatively impact their revenue.