My girlfriend is Australian, stranded abroad here in Germany like many other Aussies.
I’ve bern following the news from down under for quite a while. I have the nagging feeling that Australia is currently the Western country with the highest chance of turning into Gilead.
Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours
251–260 of 397 posts
Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
Please don't strawman me, I didn't say I agree with the surveillance bill (I do not) and I don't live in Australia - my family does though. It's a different country with a different set of tradeoffs, and is also a more free country than the United States across many important areas, which is why it rates higher in the Cato freedom index than the USA. It comes down to perspective, to take a separate topic to prove my…
> they live without the fear of death in a mass shooting I live in the US without the fear of death in a mass shooting because I understand statistics. There was a school shooting in my area a while back. There was a huge hue and cry to put uniformed police in all the schools. I (annoying person that I am) pointed out that statistically the children were much more likely to die in a traffic accident on the way to sch…
> I live in the US without the fear of death in a mass shooting because I understand statistics.
Obviously you are making the assumption I do not understand statistics, which I do. There are multiple preventable causes of death that can simultaneously be tragedies, and whataboutism does not negate from the extremely high death toll and comparative probability from gun violence in the United States.
The comparison to cars is facetious because cars have the necessary utility of moving people about around the world and are highly regulated, whereas assault rifles have by comparison miniscule utility and regulation.
Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
As an American's American (Guns and Liberty for everyone!) I really appreciate the French people's intolerance of government overreach. They say no, and they don't sit down.
Your overstimate what we protest for and the effectiveness of it. Also protests have been heavily repressed during Macron, it's becoming scary to actually go sometimes.
> Your overstimate what we protest for and the effectiveness of it.
I don't care, it's the spirit that counts.
> Also protests have been heavily repressed during Macron, it's becoming scary to actually go sometimes.
You helped us during our revolution. Maybe it's time to become state #51?
Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours
#254Australia is turning itself into a prison state. Citizens are allowed to go outside for maximum one or two hours, total surveillance, unconstrained searches of the property... About the same set of rights as a supermax prison inmate has, it looks like.
The part about being "allowed to" go outside isn't true. Take it from me, I live here and am free to go wherever I please.
So this report, touting additional hour of outside time (within the limits of curfew and for fully vaccinated families of course, we're not savages!) is a complete fabrication?
https://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-nsw-restrictio...
Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours
#255In similar news the well-known direct democracy of Switzerland just voted a new rule giving police similar surveillance powers without judicial oversight. So it's obviously the people wishing to be better surveilled and we're the outliers here.
I would expect as much, just based on how badly direct democracies have performed historically. John Adams said, "Remember Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes exhausts and murders itself. There never was a Democracy Yet, that did not commit suicide. It is in vain to Say that Democracy is less vain, less proud, less selfish, less ambitious or less avaricious than Aristocracy or Monarchy." In the past, democracy…
Well, it's interesting, then, that Switzerland is one of the oldest political regimes in Europe. This kind of rhetoric tends to come from elitist thinkers that would want a guarantee of power over people because they think they are right and somehow destined to have it.
If we are on topic of exchanging opinions of famous men, I think Machiavelli said that the people can be misled and go astray but are not prevented by pride from correcting themselves, like rulers would.
Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours
#256There and New Zealand both. The responses (extreme lockdown) of both countries to Covid has been nothing short of insane.
New Zealand's (as you describe it) "extreme lockdown" has worked. When dealing with a pandemic you are supposed to limit potential exposure, and their actions did that. As a result NZ has had one of the lowest infection rates in the world. Also, those actions let them "return to normal" quicker then anywhere else. It worked. Perhaps you feel that the mid-evil practice of nailing the doors and windows shut and posting…
Most of the people upset about the lockdowns seem to be people living outside of New Zealand. Quick search shows that currently 85% of New Zealanders agree with the current lockdown approach. We've seen what it did to Australia by not properly locking down. People are paid a covid support wage subsidy through their business to ensure that they stay being paid.
Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not about shooting them but rather deterring them from totalitarian government. That our ruling bodies understand there are lines and boundaries.
Yes it is about shooting them, as that's what your deterrent is. Your threat is that you'll murder them if they don't do things you like.
No you’re missing the point I think. The point is that a gun let’s you defend yourself from tyranny. And that is a sufficient number of people find a government tyrannical they can choose to organize against them by not following their tyrannical laws which are illegitimate. And the tyrannical government would have to take up arms against these people to enforce their power with the knowledge these people can defend themselves.
Guns rights are about defense not coercion per-se. The knowledge that the public is already armed is a deterrent in even trying to create or enforce law that meets this criteria. Thankfully we aren’t there and I hope we never will, but as they chip chip chip away you start to wonder what will be tried next.
Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no defense against a legal power that does not limit itself. States almost-by-definition have total power should they wish to exercise it. Western states generally have limited their exercise of power, and they have structured themselves to make it difficult for one government to obtain and exercise total power. That is now changing.
I'm reading this book "You have the right to remain innocent" [1] And it brings up amazing cases where the system is definitely not limiting it's powers and it's leading to false convictions. Here's a youtube of more or less the book: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FENubmZGj8 [1]: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/30532856-you-have-the-ri... EDIT: errm actually that YT video is actually a little scant on details.…
> Ironically , the same conservatives that have been trumpeting the 2nd have concurrently been undermining the 5th and now can be used against you as evidence of guilt.
Just out of curiosity - are you possibly confusing civil vs. criminal cases? The 5th amendment does apply in civil cases to the extent that you cannot be compelled to testify - but a judge can interpret your lack of response in a negative light in a civil setting. This differs from criminal cases where the lack of testimony is not admissible nor can it be considered in determination or sentencing.
Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
Please don't strawman me, I didn't say I agree with the surveillance bill (I do not) and I don't live in Australia - my family does though. It's a different country with a different set of tradeoffs, and is also a more free country than the United States across many important areas, which is why it rates higher in the Cato freedom index than the USA. It comes down to perspective, to take a separate topic to prove my…
> they live without the fear of death in a mass shooting I live in the US without the fear of death in a mass shooting because I understand statistics. There was a school shooting in my area a while back. There was a huge hue and cry to put uniformed police in all the schools. I (annoying person that I am) pointed out that statistically the children were much more likely to die in a traffic accident on the way to sch…
> I (annoying person that I am) pointed out that statistically the children were much more likely to die in a traffic accident on the way to school. This did not go over well.
Wait until you try to bring up stats on legal vs illegal firearm crimes...
Re: Surveilance bill rushed through Australian parliament in 24 hours
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Well, the police can also temper with any other evidence all the time anyway Yeah, they do, but that's illegal and NOT encoded in law So Aus has just made police tampering legal
Well, I did not read the law in detail, but I am pretty sure, that tampering with evidence is not included and still forbidden with the threat of criminal investigation for the officers doing it. What is allowed here, is hacking for the police. That necessarily can include changing files on the target computers (e.g. deleting logs) - this is the way I read this. And I would see the point in it - if it really only get…
> tampering with evidence is not included and still forbidden
> What is allowed here, is hacking for the police. That necessarily can include changing files on the target computers (e.g. deleting logs)
How is this not tampering with evidence?