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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

fda.gov

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two doses of Moderna is still highly effective. What are you going to do? Stay unvaccinated? Given that both Pfizer and Moderna have virtually no side effects why wouldn’t you get it at these efficacy rates, even if lower?

I've got the vaccine, I am not saying don't get it. I am saying those who choose not to get it have very valid reasons for it.

Not really. Basically you get 45-75% efficacy or you roll the dice on getting Covid and potentially dying depending on age.

Not to mention your article was about infection not hospitalization. If you do that it makes even less sense.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#252
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they are, all sorts of "freedoms" hinge on it now.

I can't work in certain jobs without a security clearance. The government is not forcing me to get a security clearance.

I’m pro vaccine, but requiring I take a test or prove my trustworthiness strike me as fundamentally different than requiring I inject something in my body.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#253
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true. There could be birth defects or lower iq in babies born from vaccinated mothers.

There are an infinite number of things which could happen but there’s no mechanism or evidence making this likely. The vaccine doesn’t rewrite your DNA and it strengthens your normal immune response, which does none of those things.

Pluuuuuusssss... we don't know the long term impact of Covid itself.

People who argue against vaccines don't seem to think enough about that aspect.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are right. People won't change their minds about it. But the question is, should they be allowed to control what goes inside their bodies? In my opinion, the answer is a huge YES OF COURSE.

When it's something like weed, sure. When it's something that is a public good on a social level, like vaccination, there's precedent for requiring it when medically safe.

As a personal beneficiary of previous precedents being later overturned, I cannot rely on that.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#255
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

mRNA vaccines have been tested in humans since 2011. https://ec.europa.eu/research-and-innovation/en/horizon-maga...

That data can be relevant. "Other historical vaccines" can not.

Nah. Historical vaccines effectively cover "what happens when we train the immune system to react to something via vaccination", which is still quite relevant with mRNA vaccines.

mRNA's short half-life - on the matter of a few dozens of minutes - and pre-existence in our bodies helps us not worry too much about the differences in delivery mechanism.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#256
post #18
post #6

I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. It’s one thing to say you trust something you read on Facebook more than your doctor and quite another to walk away from a job because of it.

I'm expecting most fortune 500 companies will now mandate all employees be vaccinated, along with most colleges.

I am curious to see how this goes, because it will also be a clear indicator where our society and civilization is heading if there is no legal recourse against illegitimate authoritarian dictates that simply alter established practices to follow form over function.

There is of course also the issue that mandates come with legal liability for consequences that manufacturers are seemingly not liable for. However, when you mandate or pressure your employees, you are violating several laws, let alone fundamental human rights, and you are also not just taking responsibility for the effects/impacts but you are unnecessarily grabbing hold of that liability when it is not at all necessary. It is kind of mind boggling that we are facing a situation where people, companies, and organizations are increasing their legal risks by purposefully taking on legal liabilities they would not have by doing nothing.

I know someone with a totally inexplicable, debilitating, possibly neurological issue (but no one can tell her after ~5 months) that started with the injection. She chose to submit herself to the experimental treatment and is therefore personally liable even if it kills her. The manufacturers have been given immunity, but that liability will be taken on by employers that choose to mandated/coerce the injections.

I don't think people, organizations, and corporations are taking that into account adequately and are rather mindlessly rushing to grab the legal liability bag that the manufacturers were exempt from.

It's rather irrational and actually quite insane. I cannot make sense of why it is happening. One guess is that it is the effects of moral hazard after decades of nearly zero consequences for the administrative and ruling class. There are never consequences, so why not jump in head long that has never produced meaningful consequences and also in most casts has been quite profitable. Of course you would sycophantically rush to be the most obsequious to the system.

Nothing else makes any sober sense to me.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if true, so what? It's their bodies. They should be allowed to choose, just like you are.

"Even if true, so what? It's their bodies. They should be allowed to choose, just like you are." Is this still true if unvaccinated takes a hospital bed away from someone else or increases insurance costs to everyone else due to more expensive care?

Yes. It's still true. Arguing otherwise requires applying that same logic universally. Any life decision that could result in worse health outcomes "takes a hospital bed away from someone else." Once you go down that road, you now need a way to define what is "healthy," so that you can legislate what to do with people who made poor health choices. If we delegate the definition of "healthy" to the FDA, then trying out something as benign as a novel diet could end up in medical discrimination. That's not a world I want to live in.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#258
Question for everyone defending and promoting mRNA (1st ever approved 2020) and viral vector vaccines (2019) - do you also use all your software in Alpha/Beta versions and never wait for Stable?

Or is it just your body you DGAF, but you have higher requirements for software?

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These cheap shots or trench war between both sides does nobody any good, it divides people instead of unite them. For me the major issue with the vaccine is the extremely fast track from inventing it to getting it out the door. An FDA approval will not change my mind on the safety of the vaccine, only time can do that. By that i mean that we need more time to assess the long-term effects, something that many pro-vacc…

I wonder would you have felt the same way when the chickenpox vaccine, or MMR vaccines, or any of the other common vaccines we get today, were new.

yes actually.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#260

An interesting, short read is the difference between Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) and the full FDA approval[0]. Basically it is manufacturing, funding and red tape being the difference, nothing about safety or clinical trials differs. In software terms, EUA is parallel tracked sprints for clinical trials and manufacturing at same time vs. regular approval is Waterfall where manufacturing occurs after approval. […

One of the anti-vaxx or vaxx hesitant arguments is that Pharma can't be sued for damages under EUA. I'm honestly not sure how true that is precisely.

FDA approved or not, they cannot be sued for vaccine drama.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-c...

Claims can only go by "vaccine court" (yes that's a thing according to Wikipedia)...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Vaccine_Injury_Compen...

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