How The Hell Is This My Fault? • Hacker News Board

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#251

Post by bugsy » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 9:00 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #219

jacquesm wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, she chose to make this public, and she chose to do so apparently because AirBNB refused to move on terms that are acceptable to her. Nobody here is claiming that she is 'on trial', but when you go public with a story there will always be questions. That is because people will align with your story and your interests if they consider you to be the party that is speaking the truth. This is a fairly normal thi…

"Nobody here is claiming that she is 'on trial', but when you go public with a story there will always be questions." By now, it should be pretty clear to everyone that she is 'on trial', although perhaps not by choice. I've observed with events prior to this that anyone can start one of these public trials by posting an accusation publicly. Then that opening statement is responded to by the defendant, also publicly.…

I agree completely that Jacques is putting her on trial. His claims he is not are about as disingenuous and manipulative as if someone said "Nobody here is claiming that Jacques is a 'cat rapist', but when you go public with a story there will always be questions." That is absolutely not just a casual well intentioned statement. It is a carefully constructed propaganda attempt designed to attack the target while superficially maintaining plausible deniability.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#252

Post by bugsy » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 9:07 PM UTC

Goladus wrote: post #138

petegrif wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. Airbnb have a big problem but it isn't Techcrunch. And I don't see why Arrington shouldn't defend himself.

Well, the manner of his defense doesn't help his image as a drama queen, but he's probably fine with that.

He's not a drama queen. The people saying so are the VCs upset after he posted about their secret conspiracy meetings, which they denied, and it all was true. The VC community has it in for him since then and will do anything to attack the guy, who is one of the only credible writers left in this field full of vipers and narcissists.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#253

Post by jacquesm » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 9:07 PM UTC

bugsy wrote: post #250

jacquesm wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, she chose to make this public, and she chose to do so apparently because AirBNB refused to move on terms that are acceptable to her. Nobody here is claiming that she is 'on trial', but when you go public with a story there will always be questions. That is because people will align with your story and your interests if they consider you to be the party that is speaking the truth. This is a fairly normal thi…

> she chose to do so apparently because AirBNB refused to move on terms that are acceptable to her There you go again Jacques with your wording that is designed to raise suspicion on the crime victim and her motivations. You pass her personal identity to an investor with a billion dollar reason to silence her, you say she should show proof she was really robbed in the form of photographs on the internet of her person…

> I want an answer for you, what are your financial and professional relationships with YCombinator.

None and None. That's two answers.

Whether you'll believe me or not is another point of course.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#254

Post by chc » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 9:12 PM UTC

clobber wrote: post #204

true_religion wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Air BNB is specifically not an insurrance company. They technically have no obligation to pay in the case of any damage. For them, the best possible course of action was to bury this case. However, now that it's come into the public light they're torn between (a) trying to re-iterate to everyone that they do not have liability and (b) trying to look good by doing the "Right Thing". As a business owner, I feel for the…

Now you have to be an insurance company to do the "right thing"? Airbnb had a chance to take care of this from the very beginning and we wouldn't even be talking about this right now if they had. That's the point.

The thing that you're describing as "the right thing" is the function of an insurance company.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#255

Post by jpdoctor » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 9:20 PM UTC

mypov wrote: post #218

[deleted] wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

Your comment is unnecessarily aggressive and the facts available to you can not possibly support making such a statement.

> and the facts available to you

OK, time for a quiz. Someone who has made an investment is going to take the side that is

a. good for investment returns, or

b. bad for investment returns.

This isn't rocket science. And if basic observations of human nature are "unnecessarily agressive", then so be it.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#256

Post by jmtame » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 9:27 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #97

kyro wrote: post #95

HN has been pretty disgusting the last few days: the level of schadenfreude here has hit ridiculous new highs. It seems that every time a story breaks about a successful company, a bunch of envious and disgruntled people come out of the woodwork and jump onto the bandwagon headed straight for the founders' heads. A community of seemingly intelligent and rational individuals turns into the most rabid, emotionally-char…

It's 'schadenfreude'. This issue is very emotionally charged because: - everybody that uses AirBNB thought 'this could be me' - everybody that has a sister thinks 'that could be my sister' - everybody that runs a start-up thinks 'this could be a shakedown' (including some preposterous claims about hotel chains putting her up to this) - everybody is wondering if AirBNB is sitting on a huge stack of cash why they didn'…

I actually thought that Airbnb were having their PayPal moment--where PayPal actually realized it was not in the business of payments, but in the business of anti-fraud and risk management. Then I realized this is probably a bizarre one-off case, and the responsibility lies on the renter, not on Airbnb. Although they could supplement renters with insurance, I don't think this is their 'big test'.

What happens next time? Airbnb will either settle with the person quietly (as they've done successfully in the past), or the renter will sue the person who damaged or stole their property. That's all there is to it.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#257

Post by chrischen » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 9:28 PM UTC

babebridou wrote: post #81

chrischen wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how would they help this person? Reimburse her? AirBnb is technically not liable for those damages right? So how much do they give her? If it's too little it might be insulting. Too much and people would still complain about irreparable emotional damage. They said they're trying to help catch the perpetrator right? In my eyes that's all they really can do and the only thing that matters. The damages are primarily…

I believe the answer to the question "what can AirBnb do?" is really only somewhere deep within the subconsciousness of the victim, and can't be found in a book, nor on an internet forum. Just move your butt and go ask her in person what she needs. Chances are, the first things the victim needs is in the likes of a roof and some emotional council - a cup of coffee, a discussion, a phone number and maybe a few hundred…

She does not seem to have accepted Airbnb's financial compensations... So I don't think that's the issue.

I'm almost absolutely certain Airbnb would have asked the question "How can we make this right?" Anyone would ask that question.

What I suspect is that the girl was not able to answer that question when Airbnb asked it and thus doesn't know what she needs to fix this situation. So naturally she needs an outlet and so she blogged about it.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#258

Post by chrischen » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 9:31 PM UTC

pbreit wrote: post #185

chrischen wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how would they help this person? Reimburse her? AirBnb is technically not liable for those damages right? So how much do they give her? If it's too little it might be insulting. Too much and people would still complain about irreparable emotional damage. They said they're trying to help catch the perpetrator right? In my eyes that's all they really can do and the only thing that matters. The damages are primarily…

> AirBnb is technically not liable for those damages right? Totally irrelevant. This has obviously gone beyond "technical liability".

So apparently Airbnb did offer a new home and financial compensation like that... What else can they do?

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#259

Post by Hisoka » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 9:50 PM UTC

skue wrote: post #173

coffeemug wrote: post #19

The way many people here jumped to conclusions after the initial AirBnB story based on almost no information is really disheartening. Insulting the founders of the company, the victim, and concocting conspiracy theories based on a few paragraphs of information with barely any evidence is a really poor way to conduct oneself. Most decent people wouldn't do it in face-to-face conversations without getting to know a per…

Please don't lead off with telling us not to jump to conclusions, and then laying out your conclusion for us. > I had the opportunity to hear the founders speak a number of times. They're one of the very few founders that are incredibly genuine about bringing a positive change into the lives of their customers. > * I don't know the victim but it's easy to misinterpret events after going through an emotional trauma. M…

I agree. Everyone thinks they're "nice, good, honest" people. Being nice is easy. Being emotionally intelligent is hard. It's not enough to be sincere. The person who works and slaves at their day job until they're 50 and have a heart attack is sincere, but is unintelligent.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#260

Post by clobber » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 10:09 PM UTC

chc wrote: post #254

clobber wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you have to be an insurance company to do the "right thing"? Airbnb had a chance to take care of this from the very beginning and we wouldn't even be talking about this right now if they had. That's the point.

The thing that you're describing as "the right thing" is the function of an insurance company.

I'm describing Airbnb averting a PR nightmare (which this has become). This is a pretty valuable lesson for any startup.