Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#251

Post by toastal » Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 3:25 AM UTC

simfree wrote: post #206

dehrmann wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but Google Maps seems to do fine on iPhone. Google and Apple might have their own numbers on this that disagree, though.

Google Maps has a better data collection method (bugging their userbase to collect data for them, encouraging users to collect even more as Google Scouts) and also the dataset of Waze, while Apple has a much more laborious process where an Apple Contractor (initially in Austin or Cupertino) modifies points of interest, business hours, road alignments, etc manually. Apple started to ship this operation over to India 5…

I wish more people would realize they are literally working for Google without getting paid to do this work. If it's out of a greater sense of helping people and contributions, OpenStreetMap needs to be better known.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#252

Post by anaganisk » Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 3:27 AM UTC

henearkr wrote: post #204

What monopoly? I use FDroid without any problems thank you very much. Now if Google has a program to make happy its customers so that they don't leave... I wish all companies strategies were like that!

Great, but let me know when you can install thousands of other everyday apps, like slack? Can update apps seamlessly. And Fdroid is actually used by masses. Last I checked (week ago) unless you root, you have to go and click on every app to update it. Too bad if you had 25 apps. Infact Fdroid community itself complains, its limited in its functionality because there is no store API, inbuilt into android.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#253

Post by anaganisk » Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 3:30 AM UTC

wly_cdgr wrote: post #213

So what? It's not surprising, bad, or newsworthy that Google would bribe developers to try to keep them in the fold

Yeah sure, let two mega corps which control mobile OSs, to become as powerful as they can. While their app store reject apps with AI and no recourse. Force devs to use their payment APIs. What could go wrong, its not like they’re American telecom companies, only they can be evil and lobby. Devs are saints, am I right?

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#254

Post by ehsankia » Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 3:41 AM UTC

phendrenad2 wrote: post #222

How is this different from giving developers a larger cut of profits? It's a pretty common sales trick to do "cash back" instead of reducing price. If this is what Epic is going with, they're grasping at straws more than I had imagined.

It isn't. Epic literally decided to not use AppStore/PlayStore because they weren't happy with how much money they'd make, so Google decided to improve the money game devs make... They just complain because Google didn't sign a secret extra juicy deal with them only.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#255

Post by ApolloFortyNine » Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 3:41 AM UTC

mard wrote: post #18

In 2001, Microsoft "constituted unlawful monopolization" under Antitrust Act for bundling a web browser with their operating system. 20 years later, Apple and Google bundle not only their browsers, but whole irreplaceable app stores with no legal consequences. I don't know how the law sees it, but it's simply illogical from the common sense standpoint.

Look I'm fine punishing Google too, but it has to happen either after Apple or at the same time.

Apple literally has banned competitors. Google at least allows them, even if they make every effort to keep them out, it's still possible to install them without hacking your phone (which hasn't really been possible on iPhone for years).

I just hate that they're grouped together as if it's equivalent.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#256

Post by anaganisk » Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 3:41 AM UTC

The silence of googlers when articles like this come up is funny. They jump in like a rabbit, about every google post. Showing off all their google stuff. When things like this come up they pretend they’re busy coding (something something api to help their ad company). We as devs made them mega corps, seriously. Even the worst privacy nightmare inducing API, was coded by someone. Money sure drives everything, people say decentralisation will take care of everything. But Web is decentralised. But somehow we as devs helped few companies to make it almost centralised. The next big tech which tries hard(web3, ipfs) will eventually become centralised again. Companies pretending to be humble, will come in to increase ease of use pull the blanket and repeat.

Edit: I understand during the legal case, employees can have life changing implications for commenting on it. Well the cases can end up dragging for years. So for all those years, are we just going to keep silent? I mean if our moral compass is controlled by how corporate thinks of it, I guess we are not free after all. The next big decentralised thing is a compromised dream already.

Also if you want to really make an opinion, for those who feel like voicing but cant, make an alt account. Every voice matters.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#257

Post by echelon » Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 3:47 AM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #225

jakecopp wrote: post #9

> After another meeting between Apple and Google senior executives, notes showed that the execs agreed: "Our vision is that we work as if we are one company." ... > This unredacted graf shows that telcos get up to 25% of Google's app sales to keep them from developing rival app stores on the smartphones they sell and service. Insane reading.

>> After another meeting between Apple and Google senior executives, notes showed that the execs agreed: "Our vision is that we work as if we are one company." They're literally a cartel.

It's time to split the Famgopolies. Apple and Google shouldn't be in so many different businesses, killing everything in their wake.

Why the hell does Apple have a film studio? Why does Google have a game studio and cloud? If they keep going, they'll be the MGM and Whole Foods too. (Oh, wait!)

Famgopolies also shouldn't be allowed to dictate their payments stacks, software distribution systems, app approval processes, browsers, or monitoring. Especially not if they're going after every single possible market, snuffing out all of the oxygen in the ecosystem.

If a famgopoly does over 100 things, it shouldn't be allowed to keep growing like the blob.

I really don't want my startup to be a gazelle at the savannah, waiting for the lions to bite at the jugular because they like my idea and market. If I put so much on the line to innovate, only to have these titans duplicate and crush me, what's the point?

I never thought I'd ever cheer for patent suits given all of the trolls, but I was genuinely happy that Sonos won over Google recently. We need more of that.

Edit: incoming famgopoly downvote brigade.

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#258

Post by stale2002 » Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 3:47 AM UTC

judge2020 wrote: post #245

stale2002 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like smartphones or phones in total, Apple just does not have a monopoly. A monopoly is not needed for anti-competitive behavior to be illegal. All that is needed is significant market power. Apple has 50% of the smartphone market. Which is around where courts have stated that anti-trust laws start to apply. 50% of a highly concentrated market is not a slam dunk anti-trust case, by any means, but it is within the r…

> A monopoly is not needed for anti-competitive behavior to be illegal. All that is needed is significant market power. Have any references where someone was sued for antitrust while having <50% marketshare (of course, using the market determined by the court at the time)? If what you say is true, is the cutoff for antitrust action just "when media outlets report on it long enough to actually be put in sight of regul…

Here is the definition that the government gives.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a...

The cutoff is as follows "Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable market power — that is, the long term ability to raise price or exclude competitors"

If you want statements from a judge, regarding the 50 percent specifically, you can look up the following court cases and read from the primary source.

"See Hayden Publ'g Co., Inc. v. Cox Broad. Corp., 730 F.2d 64, 69 n.7 (2d Cir. 1984) ("[A] party may have monopoly power in a particular market, even though its market share is less than 50%."); Broadway Delivery Corp. v. UPS, 651 F.2d 122, 129 (2d Cir. 1981) ("[W]hen the evidence presents a fair jury issue of monopoly power, the jury should not be told that it must find monopoly power lacking below a specified share."); Yoder Bros., Inc. v. Cal.-Fla. Plant Corp., 537 F.2d, 1347, 1367 n.19 (5th Cir. 1976) (rejecting "a rigid rule requiring 50% of the market for a monopolization offense without regard to any other factors")."

But yes, typically, if a company has less than 50% of a market, anti-trust law does not apply. But the word "typically" does not mean "always". (And Apple has 54% of the US market)

And whether it applies, would defend on "other factors", as according to the quote I linked, and there is a good argument, IMO, that a duopoly would be a reasonable "other factor".

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#259

Post by ryan93 » Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 3:50 AM UTC

CrimsonRain wrote: post #146

ryan93 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A majority of users choose apple. but they didnt have to

Just like the majority of users choose to use Windows back in the day? They didn't had to. Linux was always a choice.

No it wasn’t. Android is a consumer friendly replacement Linux wasn’t

Re: Google’s ‘Project Hug’ paid out huge sums to keep game devs in the Play Store

#260

Post by tssva » Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 3:51 AM UTC

anaganisk wrote: post #256

The silence of googlers when articles like this come up is funny. They jump in like a rabbit, about every google post. Showing off all their google stuff. When things like this come up they pretend they’re busy coding (something something api to help their ad company). We as devs made them mega corps, seriously. Even the worst privacy nightmare inducing API, was coded by someone. Money sure drives everything, people…

I'm not a Googler and I fail to see the issue here. I personally find no issue with this.