Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity • Hacker News Board

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#251

Post by peter422 » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 8:09 PM UTC

sjwalter wrote: post #241

lame-robot-hoax wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have no clue what you are talking about and have spouted multiple falsehoods in your comment, especially in regards to phase 3 trials not being completed (they are) and that they are not conducting follow ups for an extended period of time (again, they are). https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-vaccines-idU... They have filed for full authorization for a reason. These vaccines have enough data backing…

I don't know where you're getting your information from, but what I stated is very easy to validate and I'm completely correct. Here are the links to the actual FDA trials for the different major co vid vaccines on clinicaltrials.gov as well as their associated estimated completion dates. All are currently in Phase 3 trials. (Aside, it's not clear how they will complete reporting for these trials as the companies ble…

Nothing is perfectly safe. All the vaccines you have taken have side effects. So does the food you eat and the Sun exposure you get.

The current data we have shows the vaccines are very safe to a high degree of certainty. If you had created a bar beforehand, they’d have met it. But you can always keep moving the goalposts.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#252

Post by EL_Loco » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 8:09 PM UTC

sjwalter wrote: post #214

munk-a wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually strongly disagree with this point. America has a very precise definition of individual freedom that I disagree with - it's a big part of why I emigrated. In the US you're absolutely free to die as you wish - in Canada you're free to live a healthy life and do with that life what you may. Socialism and socialized healthcare frequently gets painted as being anti-freedom but I think that the lack of socialize…

Lack of socialized healthcare? The USA has at least 3 times as many people on government healthcare than the entire population of Canada (Medicare, Medicaid, the VA). The USA has the second- third-largest government-run healthcare system in the world. As a person who lived 20 years in Canada and 14 in the USA, I'll take the USA every day of the week--and for the past year I've paid for my own health insurance directl…

>shelled out $500, and he had his MRI in less than half an hour.

What happens if you're poor and don't have anyone to turn to for the $500? Will it take the same time to get a free MRI as it does in Canada? Can you get it fro free at all in the US? (Real question, I don't know how it works and am curious)

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#253

Post by jaywalk » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 8:09 PM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #206

sjwalter wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is incredibly misleading. I used to be a close follower of the pharma industry, and you're making it seem like FDA trials happen on molecules and formulations somewhat related to the proposed formulation and then are, like, transitively approved on that hand-wavey basis. This is totally wrong. For reasons that should be obvious to any engineer that's worked on any kind of even moderately complex system, the mole…

The flu shot that's available each year doesn't undergo long term trials - it actually usually goes through about nine months to a year of trials due to predictions on what the flu outbreak will look like - but even then the substance is a reconfiguration of technology with new details being integrated. In some areas of medicine we can afford to move slowly and we absolutely should - but when it comes to the flu we d…

And outside of some specific professions, the yearly flu shot is entirely optional. We don't have people running around screaming that you're a murderer or that you should be excluded from society if you choose not to get it. It's a personal medical decision, and that's the end of it.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#254

Post by wait_a_minute » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 8:10 PM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #184

wait_a_minute wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not anti-vaccination or anti-medicine to say that it's not someone's business to verify anything. People can go about their own business in the form of a vaccination, a mask, staying at home, or all three until the pandemic is over. It's not someone else's business. That's just how it is in the States, sorry but not sorry. You know that Florida has been back to normal for a long time and covid cases have been c…

If Florida was its own country they would all be dead by now. Given that we know they falsified their numbers how can we draw any conclusions from them?

What an illogical thing to say. Florida is its own state - are they all dead? No. And I have no good reason to suspect that Florida or Texas or etc are actually fudging their numbers to hide a negative trend. Too conspiratorial for me to just believe that.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#255

Post by CameronNemo » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 8:10 PM UTC

throwitaway1235 wrote: post #219

CameronNemo wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Masks do not provide as much protection for the users as for other people. I have a right to use public spaces.

I never understood this logic. The material on both sides of the mask are the same, no? A mask can prevent a virus from leaving your nose/mouth but not enter?

It is not logic, it is science. The mask prevents droplets from your lungs from dispersing throughout the air. It is not as good at sealing your respiratory system from droplets in the air.

https://www.sandandsteelfitness.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/...

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#256

Post by mrj » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 8:10 PM UTC

sjwalter wrote: post #246

mrj wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if true, this novel molecule is not floating around in a body for an entire year waiting to have some side effect. They've been shooting it into people for a year and a half now. If there was something to worry about, it would have been seen. But there are many parts of this vaccine that is shared with previous ones and the mechanics have been tested thoroughly. The science is the same. There's just no credible…

Not sure why everyone keeps saying the trials completed, or which link you mean, because we can go right to the primary source (clinicaltrials.gov) and see that all the vaccines are still in Phase 3 of FDA trials. Here are the links. Please stop spreading misinformation during a deadly pandemic. Moderna's FDA trial: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04470427 Estimated Study Completion Date: October 27, 2022 Pfiz…

You're spreading doubt about vaccines during a pandemic. Please stop.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#257

Post by CameronNemo » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 8:11 PM UTC

wait_a_minute wrote: post #238

CameronNemo wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are free to cite to the statistics you are referencing. But I know in my community, cases did not fall until people started getting vaccinated en masse.

You can easily google “State covid cases” for any of the states that have gotten rid of mandates long ago and see the decline in covid cases. For many states.

You can easily google difference in differences.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#258

Post by nokcha » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 8:12 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #183

nokcha wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's not what this says I admit I'm not medically trained, but the graph [1] seems pretty clear to me, and the authors said: > In contrast, participants with SARS-CoV-2 antibodies at baseline before the first vaccine injection rapidly developed uniform, high antibody titers within days after vaccination (median AUC before vaccination, 90 [43 participants]; >at 0 to 4 days, 133 [7 participants]; >at 5 to 8 days, 14…

The graph is quite clear. It shows that seropositive (previously infected) people had a higher pre-existing antibody level before vaccination, and it rapidly increased at days 5-8 post-vaccination -- faster and stronger than in unexposed people. It takes 28+ days and a second dose for the unexposed group to approach the titers seen in the group who already had Covid, and they still don't quite get there. Most notably…

I'm not sure what you're saying -- are you saying that I inaccurately stated the experimental results of the study, or are you disputing their clinical relevance? I didn't really make any claims about the clinical relevance of this antibody study, but I do think that it suggests that the current CDC guidance (of recommending 2 doses even for those previously infected) might be overkill and that it would be worth further study of whether 1 dose (or even 0 doses) would be sufficient (including against variants) for those previously infected.

I don't know of any study of the Delta variant (or other recent variants) comparing immunity acquired from infection versus immunity conferred by vaccination -- AFAIK, it's still unknown how these compare and whether a vaccination might provide additional immunity against variants. IIRC, the mRNA vaccines were developed to target key parts of the virus that are thought to be unlikely to mutate without decreasing virus viability.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#259

Post by Pyramus » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 8:13 PM UTC

timr wrote: post #232

mrj wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not novel, this technology has been trialed and used for a decade, 3 years in vaccines. We do already have long-term data. You would see side effects for a vaccine within six months, and we have been administering it for much longer than that. The vaccines are safe. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7956899/

> You would see side effects for a vaccine within six months, and we have been administering it for much longer than that. We have now had two separate rare-but-serious side effects of different Covid vaccines: the CVT issue with J&J, and the myocarditis issue with the mRNA vaccines in children. It's disingenuous to suggest that the vaccines are "safe" merely because they've been widely administered; even the questio…

I don't think anyone is ignoring these issues - on the contrary, even in these very rare cases of side effects vaccination efforts were halted immediately.

Safe is always relative. If you don't think the vaccines are safe enough, then please also be consistent and don't engage in equally unsafe activities, e.g. don't drive a car, exercise regularly, eat healthily, don't encourage your girlfriend/wife/daughter/friend to take the contraceptive pill or, even worse, get pregnant, also do not take a large number of other drugs etc.

Again, from what we know today, it is safer to vaccinate your kids then driving them around in a car. Even when the risk/benefit profile is even/negative, absolute risk is super low.

Re: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may produce lasting immunity

#260

Post by incrudible » Tue, Jun 29, 2021, 8:14 PM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #227

incrudible wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vaccines are safe. This is true by medicinal standards, but it's also a sleight-of-hand. The AstraZeneca vaccine had a rare side-effect that was right on track to kill more young women in Europe than the virus itself. That's why it was banned. By that standard, I could argue the viral infection is also safe - for young women at least.

Just to clarify - that is false. It is generally advisable to get Moderna/Pfizer if they're available and you're a young woman but the chance of mortal thrombosis is around 5 per one million. The EU recommends getting AZ over not receiving a vaccine if that is the only option available to you[1] - though at this point there should be a sufficient supply of alternatives. 1. https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/covid-19-v…

> Just to clarify - that is false.

It isn't false, though the blanket "it was banned" statement lacks context:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford%E2%80%93AstraZeneca_COV...

> It is generally advisable to get Moderna/Pfizer if they're available and you're a young woman but the chance of mortal thrombosis is around 5 per one million.

No, the risk for anyone to develop a lethal thrombosis is roughly 5 per million. The chances are much higher for younger women, to the point where it exceeds the risk to die of COVID.