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Facebook extends its work-at-home policy to most employees

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Re: Facebook extends its work-at-home policy to most employees

#251

Post by SilverRed »

wokwokwok wrote: post #169
johannes1234321 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After working remote for ten+ years I disagree. There are things one can better understand about a person in a face to face meeting. When discussions become differently casual. Also some discussions are simpler in a completely informal circumstance ("random" meeting at the watercooler) than a virtual meeting of any kind. Of course ymmv but blunt "None" isn't right.

People talk online too; it’s different for people who grew up using text messages and social media where they’re accustomed to building and maintaining online relationships. I’m old, so don’t look at me, but when you look at the cohort of folk who are dealing with wfh successfully and productively, it’s, in my direct observation, younger folk. None is perhaps true for more people than you think. The ones who are stru…

It certainly depends on how willing you are to just have a random off topic chat with someone over IM. For me, there are a few people where if its the last hour of the day, we will just spend 30 mins half working half chatting. This helps build relationships with the people you work with in an otherwise unproductive period. If they are really busy at the time they can just tell you.

Re: Facebook extends its work-at-home policy to most employees

#253

Post by nwb »

torgian wrote: post #199
cletus wrote: post #189

Speaking as someone who now works remotely permanently, this has been... life-changing. So for 10 years I lived in NYC and--don't get me wrong--there are lots of things I liked about NYC but I'm so over the summers and the winters. Also bear in mind that I think NYC is infinitely better for most people to live in than the Bay Area. But I now live in Florida. It's about the 182nd day in a row where it's been 70-80F. S…

It’s possible if you become a contractor. That’s what I am now, and I have worked for two companies so far. I live outside the states now. But it does mean dealing with your own taxes, charging a higher rate to compensate for those taxes and other bills, etc. however, I’ve found that I can charge higher and the company can still save money simply because they don’t have to pay for things they would normally pay a per…

Curious what you do and what your strategy was for being a contractor. Care to share?

Re: Facebook extends its work-at-home policy to most employees

#254

Post by grecy »

majormajor wrote: post #88
dreyfan wrote: post #75

I currently have 10 fully remote engineering jobs. The bar is so low, oversight is non-existent, and everyone is so forgiving for under performance I can coast about 4-8 weeks before a given job fires me. Currently on a $1.5M run-rate for comp this year. And the interviewing process is so much faster today, companies are desperate, it takes me 2-3hrs of total effort to land a new job with thousands to chose from.

I'm assuming this is facetious, but... high performers are potentially big winners in a remote world. Let's say someone gets 5x the person next to them done. Very few companies will pay them 5x. Maybe double... But if they can manage their time well enough to get X done in some fraction of the time, they could realistically do two or three full time jobs worth of "normal" work, and increase their pay - and income sec…

I feel like this is the post-covid take on the classic SO thread: "I automated my job, do I have to tell my boss" [1]

It really depends if you view employment as "they are paying you for 40 hours per week" or "they are paying you for a specified output, good for you if you can get it done faster!"

[1] https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/93696/is-it-un...

Re: Facebook extends its work-at-home policy to most employees

#255

Post by SilverRed »

fbggthro wrote: post #166
someelephant wrote: post #28

Let's be real. The loser here is middle managers. Not all of them. Just the ones who feed off of the high they get from having control over the office environment.

This strawman about middle managers in the WFH conversation is exhausting and annoying. Do you really think middle managers are some evil scum-sucking lizards that actually enjoy things like hour long commutes and wearing uncomfortable clothes? They're people just like you are, and they enjoy sitting at home in their pajamas just as much as you do. Maybe, just maybe the issue is that middle managers have actual, legi…

I can relate to this a bit. Most here will quickly jump on the "Judge output and not effort" and dismiss the fact that judging output is very difficult, time consuming and often unfair.

If the task hasn't been done on time, it might be because the task underestimated the difficulty, or that the person had other tasks which interrupted this one. If the person tried their best and they are competent, the output doesn't matter so much since likely it would have taken an equal amount of time for anyone else to get it done. You can't ask people to do more than they are capable of.

When everyone is honest and trying their best there are no problems but its pretty hard to work out when they aren't.

Re: Facebook extends its work-at-home policy to most employees

#256

Post by screye »

majormajor wrote: post #88
dreyfan wrote: post #75

I currently have 10 fully remote engineering jobs. The bar is so low, oversight is non-existent, and everyone is so forgiving for under performance I can coast about 4-8 weeks before a given job fires me. Currently on a $1.5M run-rate for comp this year. And the interviewing process is so much faster today, companies are desperate, it takes me 2-3hrs of total effort to land a new job with thousands to chose from.

I'm assuming this is facetious, but... high performers are potentially big winners in a remote world. Let's say someone gets 5x the person next to them done. Very few companies will pay them 5x. Maybe double... But if they can manage their time well enough to get X done in some fraction of the time, they could realistically do two or three full time jobs worth of "normal" work, and increase their pay - and income sec…

A high performer that can produce 5x on a consistent basis in one job will only be able to produce maybe 2.5x on multiple jobs with significantly more convoluted career progression and schedules. Context switching and context setting are both quite difficult.

But a 5xer will quickly promoted to principal level (L6) within a decade of entering their industry if they hop around a couple of times.

L6s usually make 2.5x of what their peers make. So the conventional process really isn't that bad.

___________

Honestly, if you can consistently produce 5x and provide good estimates, then you should be consultant / contract hire for mid-tier companies. You will make a lot more money and have a lot more agency over your own life.

Finding clients is a hustle, but so is holding 3 jobs at the same time. So, pick your poison.

Re: Facebook extends its work-at-home policy to most employees

#257

Post by [deleted] »

cletus wrote: post #189

Speaking as someone who now works remotely permanently, this has been... life-changing. So for 10 years I lived in NYC and--don't get me wrong--there are lots of things I liked about NYC but I'm so over the summers and the winters. Also bear in mind that I think NYC is infinitely better for most people to live in than the Bay Area. But I now live in Florida. It's about the 182nd day in a row where it's been 70-80F. S…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook extends its work-at-home policy to most employees

#258

Post by steelframe »

dado3212 wrote: post #207
leoh wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this contrast with Google?

Google’s terminal level is L4. Not sure what happens if you’re not promoted in the given timeline.

I used to manage a team at Google. L3 basically meant you had to be told what to do. L4 meant that while you may not regularly give a lot of strategic direction to the team, you could be relied upon to just pick up the ball and carry it forward toward shared objectives. Your code was good enough to not require a bunch of time- and energy-wasting back-and-forth with reviewers. What you delivered stood on its own and was more an asset than a liability to the team and the product.

If, after a few years, you still need to be told what to do in order to be productive day-to-day, you’re simply not developing, and unless you figure out what’s going on you’re probably going to struggle to build a successful career.

For my own team, the bar I set for giving higher assessment ratings was how well you could make and keep commitments to the team. If, after working in the code base with the group of people for a year or so, you couldn’t independently come up with useful things to commit to doing and couldn’t deliver in the timeframes you said you could, I would start asking you whether you are really happy and motivated doing what you’re doing with your career. For the few times I had to do that, the member of my team ended up admitting to themselves that they were making a mistake trying to do this type of work, and they moved on to something else where they were more happy and successful.

Re: Facebook extends its work-at-home policy to most employees

#259

Post by nomy99 »

cletus wrote: post #189

Speaking as someone who now works remotely permanently, this has been... life-changing. So for 10 years I lived in NYC and--don't get me wrong--there are lots of things I liked about NYC but I'm so over the summers and the winters. Also bear in mind that I think NYC is infinitely better for most people to live in than the Bay Area. But I now live in Florida. It's about the 182nd day in a row where it's been 70-80F. S…

Nyc isn’t for everyone, I’m glad you found an alternative

Re: Facebook extends its work-at-home policy to most employees

#260

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

My company has already started its effort to bring all of us back in. There are some exceptions, but it is not clear, who can get it, so it is the usual corporate free for all, which means basically what it always did.. if boss likes us you, they may bestow a favor upon you. Throughout the entire pandemic experience I have become noticeably more cynical, but I have to admit I did not see the ridiculous corporate propaganda 'sitting in traffic is good for you' coming.
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