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Don't let social media think for you

disgustinglyoptimistic.com

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Re: Don't let social media think for you

#251
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused how this comment relates in any way to the question of whether my existing on Hacker News is the "same thing" as participating in an online mob against a person.

Oh, are you simply existing here? Nothing else? I am positive you are not blind to the parallels between your current actions and the actions of which you claim to be ashamed. I imagine the distinctions matter more to you than the similarities, but I honestly cannot tell why. Are you now better than the twitter user because less people use hacker news? Or are you better because the people you shame are faceless rathe…

What? What individual have I shamed here? I have no idea what you are talking about.

Re: Don't let social media think for you

#252
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, as a fellow Lone Star drinker, I really don't think it's possible to separate the noose from its history, particularly in our great state. Sure, it's just a pun, but for many people it conjures a very particular image. They don't want to open their beer to an image of a noose, regardless its context. And really, the lone star is the emblem of the Republic of Texas which was founded in large part due to Mexico's…

I just don't like the stink that someone made about it, and don't think it's that big a deal. Even had they quietly said "sure" to removing it, that would have been one thing, but to pander to the sensitive crowd irks me. All that stuff you said may be true in the strictest sense, but I still think one has to train themselves to get mad about that kind of thing. It's unnatural to instantly get infuriated and see hate…

You did not personally live through a time of repression and terror that that noose signified. You did not fear for the lives of yourself or your loved ones. There are plenty of people alive today who did.

The last black man lynched in Texas was in 1942. The last black man lynched in the US was in 1981. And the noose itself continued to be used as a symbol of terror, just like the burning cross.

No body had to "train" themselves to get mad at "that kind of thing," that was done by the people doing the lynchings.

> Even had they quietly said "sure" to removing it

You think there's any chance that that would have happened without someone making a "stink" about it?

Re: Don't let social media think for you

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no such thing as a noose that's unrelated to death. That's what they're for. The puzzle may not be related to death, but the noose is. And in the US there's no such thing as a noose that's unrelated to race. They are being used, today, as racist threats. When a noose appears, lynching is the assumed meaning, and not just by black people [1]. So it's a good thing that Lone Star is taking a look at the entire p…

The funny thing about this offense is it seems that was created by the offended so they could become victims of it. Nooses used to represent suicide or maybe western movie culture. The race thing seems to have been kind of resurrected by social media. Though I'm only an outside observer of American culture so perhaps the noose=suicide is because that's pretty much always been their only use in my country. Does this p…

> Nooses used to represent suicide or maybe western movie culture. The race thing seems to have been kind of resurrected by social media.

I'm sorry, but this is just ignorant of American history. Lynchings were part of a reign of terror that whites, mostly in the South, inflicted on Blacks for over a hundred years.

Between 1882 and 1968 over 3000 black men were lynched by mobs. Families would go and have picnics, bringing their kids so they could watch the lynchings. They would sometimes then carve up the bodies for people to take home a souvenirs, and many of the hanging bodies of the lynched men were photographed and turned into postcards that were sold all over the South. The postcards were usually inscribed with racist text or poems, and people used to send them just as regular postcards -- photos of men hanging on the back of a casual letter. So many were being sent that the postmaster eventually had to ban them being sent through the mail, though they were still produced and sold.

Lynchings of Black men were absolutely a huge part of the American consciousness. They were one of the main ways that the South kept African Americans living in terror, and a major cause of Martin Luther King Jr's movement and the ensuing civil rights era. Songs like "Strange Fruit" were sung in protest of them.

The last black man lynched in Texas was in 1942. The last black man lynched in the US was in 1981. And the noose itself continued to be used as a symbol of terror, just like the burning cross.

Re: Don't let social media think for you

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Next thing he knew, the crowd had put tires over the alleged thief and set him on fire. Ah, yes. Necklacing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necklacing

This is some liveleak shit I'm maybe glad I didn't see.

Too graphic for LiveLeak. It would be on documentingreality instead.

Also, from the wiki, in 1986, Winnie Mandela, then-wife of the imprisoned Nelson Mandela, stated, "With our boxes of matches, and our necklaces, we shall liberate this country", which was widely seen as an explicit endorsement of necklacing. Lovely.

Re: Don't let social media think for you

#255

This gets to my biggest issue with social media: the primacy of the collective opinion. As the article states, nuance has no place, nor does the idea that we should evaluate something based on its intrinsic qualities. Instead, the most important thing about everything is what We think about it in this instant. And that is highly mutable: We will change that whenever we wish, and you need to keep up. The very notion t…

Interesting comment, I might have thought it was the other way around.

Re: Don't let social media think for you

#256

This gets to my biggest issue with social media: the primacy of the collective opinion. As the article states, nuance has no place, nor does the idea that we should evaluate something based on its intrinsic qualities. Instead, the most important thing about everything is what We think about it in this instant. And that is highly mutable: We will change that whenever we wish, and you need to keep up. The very notion t…

Interesting comment, I might have thought it was the other way around.

That's the impression I get. The opinions are certainly originally formed from some sort of objective-ish basis, but then it seems to be more important to propagate the meme than it is for others to individually assess the subject or the validity of the original judgment.

Similar dynamics happen among VC investors ("no one else is investing, it can't be that good"). My issue is that end up people taking the meme propagation as ground truth.

Re: Don't let social media think for you

#257
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing about this offense is it seems that was created by the offended so they could become victims of it. Nooses used to represent suicide or maybe western movie culture. The race thing seems to have been kind of resurrected by social media. Though I'm only an outside observer of American culture so perhaps the noose=suicide is because that's pretty much always been their only use in my country. Does this p…

> Nooses used to represent suicide or maybe western movie culture. The race thing seems to have been kind of resurrected by social media. I'm sorry, but this is just ignorant of American history. Lynchings were part of a reign of terror that whites, mostly in the South, inflicted on Blacks for over a hundred years. Between 1882 and 1968 over 3000 black men were lynched by mobs. Families would go and have picnics, bri…

The noose continues to be used as a symbol of terror:

https://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/story/_/id/29345568/nasca...

It's disappointing how explicitly and consistently HN responds to discussions of slightly-subtle racism with a very explicit not-at-all-subtly-racist pretension that it doesn't exist. "It doesn't bother me therefore it shouldn't bother you" and "You should look at the context", as if being black isn't a context.

Re: Don't let social media think for you

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Blaming the medium for the negative interactions of the few is lazy, tired, and wholly uninteresting to me. The medium (in this case Twitter) is in fact a part of the problem and there are very specific features that contribute to it. The quote tweet feature is a good example. It fundamentally amplifies and encourages combative exchanges and negativity through its design. In fact looking at how a platform can preve…

What you have to say is very interesting. However, it is not the content of the article.

I thought it was relevant but fair enough.

Re: Don't let social media think for you

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you have to say is very interesting. However, it is not the content of the article.

I thought it was relevant but fair enough.

Sorry, I agree with it being relevant. I just meant that it was not what I found uninteresting.

Re: Don't let social media think for you

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking something similar. If a person has the inclination to jump on the bandwagon for any given situation, they are probably actively getting something out of it. I have a theory that it could have something to do with the haves and the have nots. Whenever some relatively public figure (by default, without critical thinking, is usually labeled as a "have"), slips up in some way, no matter how small, the have…

It's not necessarily the "have nots" who jump on the bandwagon. Many of these mob inciters are clearly middle class or upper middle class. I've even seen news anchors participate, people who earn several hundreds of thousands a year. In some cases, it may have to do with crab mentality. Wanting to pull someone down who has more than them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality However, if you look at the way Ja…

I agree, it's not necessarily the "have nots" in the typical sense of the term, crab mentality is more accurate. It's just about someone who has more of anything than you - money, power, privilege (loaded term these days), status, etc.
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