Why Russians do not smile (2002) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#251

Post by vostok » Sat, May 29, 2021, 5:34 AM UTC

ngcc_hk wrote: post #233

c-smile wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian here (to be precise Russian Canadian of Ukrainian descent :-) There is a saying in Russian: if a stranger, on your question "how are you?" (ru: как дела?), starts explaining in details what is happening with him/her - please know, you've met complete idiot. So I am classifying that 'how are you?' as never ending test of my life position :)

A bit confused. My mental model is - Ukraine is part of Soviet Union - currently the Russian speaking Ukraine part is well ... other than that I do not associate Ukrainian as Russian. They are separately in identity ?

They mentioned they are of Ukrainian descent so perhaps they are of Ukrainian ethnicity, but they or their family came to Canada from Russia.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#252

Post by scruple » Sat, May 29, 2021, 5:38 AM UTC

ph0rque wrote: post #186

Clewza313 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From now on, I need to start responding to "How are you?" with "Normal".

My go to answer is, "can't complain". Vague enough to leave it alone if the question is trivial, but also open-ended enough to expound upon if the other person is genuinely interested in my well-being.

Me, too. It's a very Midwestern response... [0]

[0]: https://youtu.be/vm-MrkoJPC8?t=35

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#253

Post by andai » Sat, May 29, 2021, 5:39 AM UTC

sray wrote: post #200

Clewza313 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From now on, I need to start responding to "How are you?" with "Normal".

My favorite response to “How are you?” comes from a Russian former coworker: “Average. Worse than yesterday, better than tomorrow”.

I heard this phrase described as "Russian Optimism".

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#254

Post by TchoBeer » Sat, May 29, 2021, 5:44 AM UTC

firebaze wrote: post #74

zeroc8 wrote: post #60

Austrian here, we are somewhat in between Russians and Americans, when it comes to smiling. But what I can tell you is that life is just so much better when people smile at you, even if it might not be a hundred percent genuine. My comparison stems from having worked with both Russians and Americans. Being around grumpy Russians all day long makes live really miserable.

I can't second this. Everytime I'm in the US I'm scared of all the friendly, smiling people, asking "How are you?" in such a friendly tone, it's delightful. Of course it's faked, anyone knows, and dare if you'd reply with "not good, my aunt just died". Awkward situation ensues, everybody tries to get out of the situation ("and what would you like to have for breakfast tomorrow?"). Now replay the same situation in ano…

This sounds like a made up distinction. If I asked someone "how are you" and they reply about how they're having a hard time because a family member died I would definitely not "try to get out of the situation", and I can say the same for the people around me, for the most part.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#255

Post by geocrasher » Sat, May 29, 2021, 5:48 AM UTC

iJohnDoe wrote: post #219

geocrasher wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my wife was dying (she has since passed away) and nobody could figure out her illness, she'd be in the most wretched pain, in the ER again, and she'd be retching awfully and almost uncontrollably. A doctor would walk in, having heard of all this already and ask "How are you?" Sometimes she gave them the benefit of the doubt, and sometimes she was a bit less charitable. My point? Americans (as she was), Russians,…

I’m very sorry to hear that, for both you and your wife. I hope any healthcare for your wife was eventually able to manage her pain and make her at least comfortable.

Thank you. For the most part she was, but it was a pretty awful thing that happened so there was only so much that could be done. But I appreciate it. The last year of her life saw her getting the best care she'd ever had. Unfortunately, it was hospice care. But it was in home, and my adult daughter and I took care of her til the end.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#256

Post by andreskytt » Sat, May 29, 2021, 5:50 AM UTC

Estonian here. At Skype (10+ years ago) I observed, that members of large cultures (American, British, Hindu etc.) had real trouble adjusting to the predominantly Estonian-based engineering culture. Probably because they had never had to adjust, commonly people adjust to _their_ culture as it tends to dominate large organizations. But once they did make an honest attempt, that was always most welcomed and gained them a large amount of goodwill. Our US CEO going to a sauna with 20 naked engineers...

I’ve also seen the “how are you” thing described in comments unfold.

A Hindu pm had the habit of sitting next to developers while they worked, sometimes putting a hand on their knee. After being politely explained that the size of an Estonian personal space is measured in astronomical units and that this was the reason devs literally scattered upon his approach, he immediately changed his behavior and became great friends with the team.

A US lady came to hr complaining about an Ukrainian dev approaching them inappropriately during a party. The hr-person, having witnessed the situation, explained that this was just their way of showing friendly interest and no disrespect was intended. A while later, a Japanese guy came to the hr person complaining the original lady from us had hugged them. Again, it was explained that this is just what Americans do.

Cultures are hard and take a lot of mutual respect to work through.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#257

Post by geocrasher » Sat, May 29, 2021, 5:52 AM UTC

sunshineforever wrote: post #238

geocrasher wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my wife was dying (she has since passed away) and nobody could figure out her illness, she'd be in the most wretched pain, in the ER again, and she'd be retching awfully and almost uncontrollably. A doctor would walk in, having heard of all this already and ask "How are you?" Sometimes she gave them the benefit of the doubt, and sometimes she was a bit less charitable. My point? Americans (as she was), Russians,…

I have a difficult life and I'm growing very tired of this question. I've even had to ask some of my neighbors not to greet me that way.

Indeed. People do not realize how destructive it is. The other one that really irks me is "let me know if you need anything!"

1) You are putting it on me to tell you that I need something, right in the middle of my need. 2) If you're my real friend you don't need to say that, I already know I can call you 24/7/365 3) Your willingness to help is nulled by your lack of initiative.

The best thing anyone ever did was call me and say "I'm at Costco. What do you need? And don't say 'nothing'. I'm going to bring you something, and that's that." That whole pizza and frozen burritos were bad for me, but the last thing I needed on my mind at that time was cooking. And that's what true friends are there for.

So don't say "If you need anything let me know!" It's borderline passive aggressive.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#258

Post by aristofun » Sat, May 29, 2021, 5:52 AM UTC

Russian here.

The fact is that russian life is really miserable (just imagine living for 100 years in hardcore totalitarian communism, still in progress with different labels).

There’s really not that many reasons to smile while you grow up & live in Russia.

And you don’t even have a strong quality spiritual platform (like some asian countries) or good climate (like some aftican countries) to compensate.

You don’t waste your attention span on smiling etc - you’re busy surviving and fighting for the best spot in pyramid.

If you smile too much — it could even cause jealousy and you win more enemies or people might consider your positive attitude a sign of softness and take advantage of you.

It’s also suspicious to see someone smiling a lot - its harder to read his underlying subtle motivations & values.

And russians don’t have much time to make friends - the sooner and better you identify like minded people the easier for you as a group to survive.

That’s why russian tend to smile only in a close group of friends or when something really funny is going on.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#259

Post by andai » Sat, May 29, 2021, 5:53 AM UTC

olivermarks wrote: post #29

This is such a great article imo that really captures fundamental societal and cultural differences. I would say that Sweden has a similar 'grave' approach to life and that smiling is reserved for funny situations. Much as I love the US 'etiquette smile' when passing people in the street and meeting, social pressure to conform can mask stress, anxiety and solemnity. The English used to feel pretty uncomfortable about…

Re: British/American cultural differences, I was reminded of this 1942 handbook for American servicemen in the UK.

> British Reserved, Not Unfriendly. You defeat enemy propaganda not by denying that these differences exist, but by admitting them openly and then trying to understand them. For instance : The British are often more reserved in conduct than we. On a small crowded island where forty-five million people live, each man learns to guard his privacy carefully-and is equally careful not to invade another man’s privacy.

> So if Britons sit in trains or busses without striking up conversation with you, it doesn’t mean they are being haughty and unfriendly. Probably they are paying more attention to you than you think. But they don’t speak to you because they don’t want to appear intrusive or rude.

https://flashbak.com/1942-extracts-from-gi-handbook-instruct...

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#260

Post by ganzuul » Sat, May 29, 2021, 5:55 AM UTC

treeman79 wrote: post #172

cosmodisk wrote: post #116

Plenty of contribution already,so I'll just add a personal anecdote. Some years ago I happened to have some beers with a Latvian Russian,who lived here, in London. He tells us that he doesn't get the Brits. He just doesn't understand the reasoning in some situations. I ask to elaborate. He says: last year, I had a pretty serious trauma and ended up in a hospital. It's so bad, pain, lots of tests,etc. And I'm pretty f…

Have been in a doctors office with near suicidal levels of pain a few times. Past a certain point Humor doesn’t go over well. Particularly if you have been trying and failing to get help. That said, doctors see a lot of misery, so anything to lighten the mood should be encouraged.

Had to explain to a doc once that when you've been in extreme pain for long enough your mind starts to regress to survival circuits. This was apparently not obvious. Doctors are fallible.